Seventh Day Adventist Cult – Oppressive & Destructive

Is the Seventh Day Adventist Church a Cult?

Is the Seventh Day Adventist church a cult? This is a hard question to answer but I will say this; there is a very real segment of that church that is very destructive and oppressive. I will present to you why I believe the church is destructive and oppressive, and let you make your choice on this question, as the term “cult” is problematic.

Please note, this article will merely discusses church culture and will not debate the theological merits of the teachings. I would also like to note that article this does not apply to all SDA churches. The culture described here is mostly seen in the “traditional” churches and in some “progressive” churches. This article has been compiled from experiences from ex-Adventists around the globe who came from conservative circles. Please keep in mind everyones experience will be different! If you are looking to escape/leave an oppressive segment of the church, I highly recommend you read this article on how to leave it. Please also note, that from now on when this article refers to “Adventists” that are “oppressive” it is in reference to the segment that is and is not referencing the whole church.

The Seventh Day Adventist church is extremely controlling

In Lifton’s criteria for deciding whether a church is a cult or not, he looks at whether the church has a charismatic leader that controls, interrogates and bullies its members. The Seventh Day Adventist church has no such leader. Instead, it has an interesting phenomena about it; instead of a leader doing this, the members fulfill this function themselves. If a church member is caught breaking one of the many rules, they face social retribution for their sin. To get a small glimpse into this, take a look at the video below:

This is a funny video, and Adventists would generally find it very funny. In fact, it was created by a (liberal) church. Unfortunately, this is not an accurate representation of what actually occurs, even within liberal circles. Lets take the very first example, where the poor man is caught having a meat lovers pizza. In the SDA church, it is a sin to eat any meat that comes from a pig, as this violates the SDA health laws. In the video, the man gets a disappointed look from his friend who looks very unimpressed, while he looks very embarrassed. But is this it? No, it isn’t. Unfortunately, its just the beginning.

In the video, it shows what would have happened if he had the ‘Adventist Alert App’. He see’s his friend is nearby, and he quickly changes his order to a vegan pizza, so that he can be a good Adventist. You know why he is so eager to do this? Because being caught actually choosing bacon/pepperoni would be socially shunned by his SDA peers. His friend would tell his friends, who would then tell their friends.

These people would then look at him differently and treat him differently. They might “jokingly” reference his transgression in conversation, in front of other people. They might confront him and ask him why he was eating unclean flesh. They might even give him some “helpful suggestions” on how to avoid temptation. The tone in which this is done socially shames the man, as the Adventist feels the need to pull their peer “into line”, so-to-speak. They would never forget the incident, and would see the person as “not a real Adventist” since they purposely broke the rules of God. They would then, consciously or subconsciously, spend less time around them and avoid them because they are a bad influence. The more transgressions you make, the worse it gets.

This is a very high punishment to pay. For one thing, it isn’t just you that would become ostracized, but your family would suffer too. For another, being ostracized by church members is especially devastating when you consider that, due to the fact that Adventists usually only interact seriously with Adventists (since they live in an exclusive Adventist world/bubble) having these people ice you out is devastating as they are your only social network. It isn’t just church members that would ice you out; your family/friends would always have your transgression in the back of their mind, and would begin to treat you differently. Too many transgressions and your friends will start to ice you out. All because a church member caught you ordering a pepperoni pizza slice. I am not joking.

Is this different from other churches/denominations?

Always looking over your shoulder

This is hard to say; the reality is within conservative Christianity a lot of harsh judging goes on and a lot of people get hurt. Are Adventists different in this regard? Most conservative Christians look at SDA’s and see them as extreme, as while other churches will judge you for much bigger choices, SDA’s will judge each other harshly for seemingly small, random and arbitrary “rules”.

Another interesting thing about the church is there is no room to dissent. If you chose to keep all of the Adventist rules except you chose to continue to eat ham, then most conservative SDA’s would have to declare you sinful, your actions worldly, and your blatant disregard for God’s health laws mean that God would not save you and you would die the eternal death. All of this because you choose to eat ham, is very harsh and SDA’s are unique in how black-and-white they are over such seemingly small rules that have very little impact on ones day-to-day life that don’t hurt other people. This harsh attitude towards people over such arbitrary things makes the church very toxic and oppressive, and one reason it could be seen as a cult.

Add to this the fact that conservative churches don’t leave a lot of room for interpretation of the scriptures; you are rigidly expected to obey all the 28 Fundementals. Most other denominations, even conservative denominations, have a lot more room for movement. Add to this that within the 28 Fundemental beliefs you then have additional sub-rules within those rules that you need to keep. Take rule #20, the Sabbath – general consensus is that wading in water on Sabbath is OK, but swimming is not. These are unlisted rules and are things you need to pick up from experience/reading. This makes it extremely difficult to keep them all, which means a lot of members live in fear of breaking rules and live in a constant state of guilt.

What really sets it apart though, and what might lead people to consider it a cult, is the insular culture. More so than almost any other denomination, Seventh Day Adventists encourage its members to only be friends with other Adventists, and it has designed its institution to limit the opportunity of SDA’s to make meaningful relationships with non-SDA’s. So when a SDA sins and gets judged by their church family, it is a much worse fate than what most other conservative-Christians face, as SDA’s are their only friends/family. Stakes are high.

Article published in Adventist Review 07/26/12 - the flagship, official Seventh Day Adventist publication/magazine

Information is Controlled

Another “cult-like” characteristic that the church exhibits is that it controls the information that its members hear. It manages this by removing the situations in which SDA’s have to interact with non-SDA’s in any meaningful way. Consider the life of a typical Seventh Day Adventist:

  • They are born in a SDA Church
  • They go to a SDA pre-school, then to a SDA grade school and then go to a SDA high school
  • They then go to a SDA college/university where they learn a skill they can use in SDA institutions (the most common are studying towards being a teacher, a pastor, a nurse or a doctor)
  • They are then employed in a SDA institution
  • They will marry a SDA spouse
  • They then retire in a SDA retirement village

Adventists can easily move through life in Adventist institutions, where they will predominately meet and get to know Adventists. While they will encounter non-Adventists here, they will migrate towards SDA’s. Partially this is because they “get” each other better, and part of it is the SDA will spend extra time with their SDA peers at church events/services, which take up a significant portion of their free time. For more information, I suggest you read part 1 and part 2 of my analysis on Adventist insular culture.

The result of this, is that the information they hear is filtered through the church. The SDA’s very much enforce their teachings in their institutes, including their schools/universities; they are not just SDA in-name only. The results of this can be quite startling and result in what would be considered by many to be cult-like behavior.

Everything that contradicts the SDA church is “planted” by Satan

Growing up, when I was confronted with evidence that the earth was older than 6,000 years I would be told the same thing – “those bones were planted there by Satan” “that rock was planted there by Satan” no matter the evidence, it had been planted there by Satan. If someone came to me and gave me a good explanation about why the SDA churches theological beliefs didn’t make sense, I would be told “be wary of listening to anyone but the church. Satan is very deceptive and he can make things seem appealing. It is safest to not go any other church at all, and to not debate these things.” I would then be barred from going to the other church meeting. This was not just my experience; I was told this many times by other adults outside my family, and Adventists who have left will tell you similar stories.

Obviously, in retrospect, this logic makes no sense. If someone came to me and told me this, I would say to them “so basically, you have already rejected all other ideas from the start, because you’ve already decided that Satan is behind everything. This just seems like an excuse you have come up with so that you are always right.” At the time though, it seemed to make complete sense; of course Satan would try to do things to contradict the remnant church! At times it would as far as claiming that it was Satan who was causing the microphones to not work at church, and we would pray before every meeting that Satan would not infiltrate and stop our equipment from working. Whenever anything contradicted the record or went awry, Lucifer was immediately blamed.

We would be told on a regular, daily basis in both the home and church that “the devil is tricky” and that “Satan is deceptive”. This created a fear and skepticism that was almost impossible to breach. If you try to debate a Seventh Day Adventist, particularly those born in the church, keep in mind that they have had the information available to them filtered and controlled throughout their life from the people they trust the most. It is not that they are willfully ignoring you; it is just that they have been told these things on a regular, daily basis from the adults in their life.

It is hard to leave/escape the Seventh Day Adventist church

A lot of people use the fact that you are free to leave at any time as a reason to not call the Seventh Day Adventist church a cult. But are you really free to leave? I would argue that you are not, especially if you are born into the faith. Because Adventists live in an exclusively Adventist world (and are heavily encouraged live as exclusive as possible), most of the meaningful relationships/friendships that Adventists develop are exclusively with other SDA’s.

When you leave the church, your friends/family will treat you very differently because you will now have become part of “The World”. You lose your positive, unique identity in their eyes. You lose your friends and family. You aren’t shunned, but your relationships will become very painful.

Imagine if your family and friends, overnight, suddenly started calling you a whore? What is they would say negative, nasty things about you and your life to each other behind your back? What if they criticised every aspect of your life to your face? What if they called you a disappointment? What if they wouldn’t come to your wedding and be happy/proud of you and your new spouse? What if every conversation you had with them from now on had strong undercurrents/tones of disappointment, anger and distance? What if they cried themselves to sleep at night over your choices? What if your friends stopped talking with you? What if your parents woke up every day, sad, because of your choice, when previously they would wake up happy and proud? What if having to see them made you sick, to the point you vomited? Imagine is everyone you cared about suddenly started to do this to you overnight?

This is what happens when you leave the church. You can walk out of your church and never come back, but we are social creatures and we care about our loved ones. When you leave, you leave a path of destruction when you exit. Overnight your good standing, love and appreciation disappears. There is little hope here; as long as you are not an Adventist, your identity will be forever lost as you become agglomerated with the rest of “The World”. Your love/affection with SDA’s is conditional on you being a Seventh Day Adventist/

And even though you technically could never come back, you still have to deal with this. You don’t just get to never talk to Seventh Day Adventists ever again. Your life has been the church. You have connections you can’t ignore. You will have family gatherings, weddings, funerals etc to attend. And while there, you will have to be bombarded with very negative attitudes towards you and your life time after time after time, from the people you love the most. Losing your entire social support network is devastating. That is why in my guide to leaving the church, I make building up a non-SDA social support network a main, core component.

What about other things such as Ellen G White?

A lot of people point to Ellen G White to label the SDA church as a “cult”. White she could be labelled strange (and it could be argued the EGW had destructive ideas), I do not believe that she should be a main concern of asking whether or not the church is a cult. When we use the term cult, what most people really mean is an insular, oppressive group that has its members controlled. Whether the group meets the official definition of a “cult” is less of a concern.

Most definitions of “cult” require there to be a charismatic leader and the closest the church had to that was Ellen White, and she is now dead. Plus she was never the official leader anyway. While, again, one could argue against her teachings, her presence shouldn’t be the concern here; its the internal culture. Although it should be noted that conservative members usually unofficially hold her writings/teachings up at the same level as the Bible.

Is the church really that extreme?

Seventh Day Adventists don’t live away in exclusive communities (bar extreme offshoot sects) and are usually friendly co-workers and neighbors. A lot of people might look at what I have written, and wonder if it is really true, and if so, how can they reconcile these cult-like tendencies with the people that they know and have met? This is a fair question and the answer to it is very simple; Adventists have very low expectations for people that are non-Adventists.

Adventists separate people into two groups; Adventists, and non-Adventists. Non-SDA’s are deemed to be part of “The World”. What you may or may not know is that your Adventist co-worker/neighbour will, in the company of other Adventists, call you “worldly”. This is their term for separating you off. As discussed in my article on “The World”, Adventists have been taught from birth that “The World” is living under the deception of Satan. They therefore don’t act this way towards “outsiders”, because they have very low expectations for people in “The World”. They only act this way to each other, and so this behavior goes under the radar.

In Conclusion

Whether they SDA church meets the precarious definition of a “cult” does not matter. What does matter is the truth, and the truth is that large portions of the church culture are controlling, oppressive, insular and very hard to leave.

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  1. I find this extremely hard to belief about the SDA faith. Where are your resources? Where are the arguments of those who are Adventist? You can’t just claim a religion is one way without any proof. Ellen White herself claimed that the Bible should be the only thing you look to. She claimed that if people had only studied the right way, there would be no use of her writings. Therefore, your claims that SDA people keep her writings and the Bible at the same importance is invalid. This is not a message of hope and profit for people looking for Christ. It is a hate message and it confuses people looking for real answers. Where is the biblical evidence? Where are the other resources? I find you and this website hypocritical to put down and try to disembody a movement that is no where near a cult. But once again, this is only because you are ignorant and blind. I doubt you know hardly anything about the SDA church. There is no sound proof evidence of anything, just mere opinion and VERY poorly done research. I am so sorry you have so much hate and discontent towards the SDA church. I don’t know if something caused you to have a bad experience, but no matter the cause, you should have more evidence and proof without taking things out of context.

    • There are numerous pastors who were asked to leave the church due to not agreeing with Ellen Whites teachings.
      There are numerous prior members who left all that they had grown up with, all the beliefs that they had been taught from birth after careful study, and realised for them that the teachings and beliefs were not congruent. It is not something that most people do lightly.
      Claiming the bible as proof is not a valid argument for people who no longer or never did believe in the bible. There are a multitude of religions that have the bible as their guide, yet all interpret the book to mean different things and have different teachings.
      Claiming that people who have left the church must be ignorant or have hate in their heart, also not a valid argument. Wishing you love and the strength to view from a different position than you have looked at this before.

      • This article is based on bad information. The SDA church is God’s remnant and that is the truth! The truth is not popular.By the way there are only two churches, one for Christ and the other for satan. That is why John was shown only two women, one dressed in white while the other was dressed in purple and scarlet.
        Can we please refer to the scriptures to check where the SDA church is going wrong. I can bet my last coin that the author has nothing based on scripture.
        I’m offering USD1,000 for anyone who can prove to me from the scriptures that God said we should worship him on Sun-day, the day of the sun.On the other hand, kindly read Isaiah 66:19-23.

        • That’s a pretty gutsy bet coming from someone who belongs to a church that only exists because its founders had to make up a completely fake doctrine (the investigative judgement) to save face after a failed prophecy.

          • The problem you presented here is a very common “HUMAN PROBLEM” Not because they are SDA. I am sure there are problems like this in other churches too…except that other churches barely has much to change of habits even if you are an insider….because the diet and practice of observing a day to keep holy is not that important… “regarding the Sabbath it is too hard to understand why people hate it so much…I see the gossips about Adventist on internet….telling each other what they believe …not only they call SDA cult, demonic, satanic, they eat blood etc…and the SDA belief they present are not even correct…then all the comments start coming in…”OH, they sound pretty messed up in the head.” hate kills people…reminds me of those small group of Christians in the middle ages where they were stripped off their possessions, killed,or dragged out of their homes because of misinformation from accusations of bad informants…

            Come to think of it…actually they love you or otherwise they will not say anything…and as far as being in the same company I think having the same habit is so much more fun….the same with married people….or else if they are 2 different sets of people its quite understandable it will be so stressful and may even end up into divorce…

            State of the dead, Leviticus 11, the 4th commandment —the 7th day Sabbath, Jesus as Michael, Ellen G White (calls her all kinds of names…strange that she never committed sin against these people…simply hatred) etc… are the main criticism of SDA that is most hated I see almost everywhere in the internet….I went to study all these in the bible and the accusations of being a cult for believing all these is 100% wrong…all have biblical support….

          • what if it possible to show the SDA in prophecy by the BIBLE ONLY and History? Would you then keep an opened mind in regards to your comments been possibly wrong? Please let meknow if you are.

          • Many people who comment about faults of the SDA church are indeed ignorant of the bible teachings.Many of them are just guilty of how their denominations are falling short of bible teachings.It is normal to feel this way,but it is wrong to falsely attack a denomination which has earnestly followed the bible teachings unfairly.There is no justification to call the SDA church a cult.It is the highest form of hypocrisy.

          • Kate,

            After reading your reply, I’m going to challenge your actual knowledge on the history of SDA church.

            Since you didn’t bother to break down what you were talking about for non-Adventist readers, I’ll do it for you. This so-called “failed prophecy” that you’re referring to is that Jesus was coming back in 1844. William Miller, a very powerful preacher studied the 2300 Day Prophecy in Daniel and determined that at the end of the 2300 Day Prophecy, Jesus was returning to Earth in 1844. He fervently preached this message and just about ALL Christians believed his message. Obviously, Jesus didn’t come back at that time.

            After this failed prophecy, a group of people continued studying the Prophecy to try to understand what happened. What they figured out was that the dates added up perfectly but the EVENT was wrong. Jesus wasn’t coming back to Earth at that time. He was going from the holy place to the most holy place and the Investigative Judgment began. This group of people believed that Jesus will come back a second time and began a church calling themselves Adventists. Now let’s clarify something: the Adventist church was not established until the 1860s, so how can you blame this failed prophecy on the Adventist church? The failed was by William Miller. I challenge you to find any historical document that shows William Miller is the founder of the SDA Church. I just wanted to address your error about the 7th Day Adventist Church’s founders being responsible for William Miller’s mis-interpretation of the 2300 Day Prophecy.

            As far as the SDA Doctrine of the Investigative Judgment beginning at the on the 2300 Day Prophecy, I’d like you to actually study it and tell us what event YOU think occurred at the 2300 Day period. Kindly use the Bible and historical references because any studying 7th Day Adventist, with the power of the Holy Spirit, can easily use both to back up the dates of the 2300 Day period and the Investigative Judgment.

            This link is a sermon by Doug Bachelor, an Adventist preacher on the 2300 Day Prophecy. Not that I couldn’t break this down to you myself but I don’t have the time to type all of this stuff out. I challenge you or anybody to watch this sermon, in which he uses the Bible to interpret the prophecy and history backs him up.


            I welcome your reply to

        • As a SDA the only thing that will convince you E.G.White is wrong is to go and find it for yourself, you believe she is right and thats it.

        • There is no where in scripture where God said to worship Him on Sunday. When He lives in us, we are His temple, we worship Him everyday 24/7! It is not about a “Day”, it’s about a relationship with Him.

          • Amen Wanda 🙂

          • Absolutely true, Wanda! God bless you!!!

          • I agree Michele. I have a very sweet, SDA church
            That my husband and I started attending over
            5 years ago in Portland , Tn. We have a strong
            And close prayer team, outreach to our community
            Youth and children’s ministry and Celebrate
            Recovery group . Our city is quite blessed as we are
            A fun a lovable group of Christians who have
            Fun celebrating who we are in Christ and sharing
            About Him thru jail ministry ,school plays.
            No one is controlling or out to take all of our money
            And that one is a new one that I have heard!

          • it is about a day its called sabbath the 4th commandment.Jesus did all the prophets in the new testament did when they were christians… can read the bible all week but you put the world away on saturday….The catholics in 320ad changed the law from saturday to sunday trying to save the pagans

          • You are right, Wanda! Mr. SS thinks he knows something with Constantine changing Saturday to Sunday on the pagans circa 320AD. The SDA Church makes a big deal out of that. The truth is that there are 60 seconds in a minute, and 60 minutes in an hour, and there is more significance to that than just a Babylonian number base…or a convenient, ancient, Babylonian, trigonometric number for the purpose of traveling. Modern society has completely forgotten about the significance of the number that they carry around on their iphones and watches. It is a number rank, and it was His number rank before the Hebrew people made the claim that they were His only chosen ones. (reference: the Sumerian K Tablets, Livingstone, A. Mystical and Mythological Explanatory Works of Assyrian and Babylonian Scholars. 1986. ISBN 978-1-57506-133-7).

            Constantine did the only thing he could to keep up with the evilness of Hebrew Nationalism. Jews, SDAs, and Seventh-day Baptists are the laughing stalk of World Religiousness; wearing watches while holding one day above another when every second of every minute was already designated to God by the Mother of all Religions. There are certain truths in this world, and one of them is the saying that “Babylon is the Mother of all Religions.” Man made religions, not God.

            More? There is no way that John the Revelator was talking about the “Lord’s Day” being anything other than Sunday in the Book of Revelation. John the revelator was a Christian, and Neron Quesar ruled whiled he was banished to the Island of Patmos. Neron Quesar’s Hebrew spelling (N-R-W-N + Q-S-R) adds up to 666, and it adds up to that in a variety of Gematria approaches.

            The truth: The measurement of time was already set up before the Hebrew people were ever conceived. There is no escape! There are 4 original commandments from “Mama and Papa:”

            1) Bath daily;
            2) Enjoy your work;
            3) Hold your family at your side; and
            4) Above all, do not cause harm to another!

            This is your lot in life!

            Thou salt not:

            1) Kill in the name of Allah
            2) Kill in the name of Yahweh;
            3) Kill in the name of Christ.

            Here is wisdom! Here is the Atrahasis! (Babylonian title for “Extra Wise”)!

          • I agree, It shouldn’t have to be a SATURDAY either. And most Adventists believe that it is a sin to worship on Sundays. That We are breaking the 4th commandment, therefore sinning against God. Christians NEVER SAID that Sunday had to be the day we worshipped. it is just THE DAY we chose to worship.

          • Did not the Bible say the following after the second coming of Jesus, ” And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. Isaiah 66:23.” Can you then please help me understand what Sabbath here is been referred to??

          • Please all, read carefully!

            23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.

            24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

            Please observe the word (must)

            You are right Wanda, is not about a day or the day, but, its about how we worship our beautiful LORD GOD through the LORD JESUS CHRIST, and the HOLY SPIRIT and our LORD JESUS said to us:

            16 “For God so loved the world, that HE gave HIS only SON, that whoever believes in HIM should not perish but have eternal life.

        • Read your Bible sir. The Adventists are no where close to being the remnant. Pls read without the books of EGW and her commentaries. If you ask the Holy Spirit to teach you the Word, He most certainly will. I have friends that have left the church and have been completely shunned by friends of 25 yr plus, and of course their Adventist families as well. I used to be offended also when people called Adventists a cult, for I was raised a 4th generation Adventist. But then I started reading the gospel. The real gospel message. I put down my great controversy and asked God to teach me His truth. I fully expected to find adventism to be “the” truth, but it’s not. He came to save us. Read the good news brother.

          • I have often wondered where people are coming from when they come up with positions like yours. I suspect most never really understood the bible and still don’t understand the gospel. Non Adventists researchers have stated that the majority of Christians are biblical illiterate today. That includes many Adventists along with the rest of the Christian world. I marvel at folks who claim to understand the gospel and yet ignore most of the Bible including the “New Covenant”. I wonder how many people who believe in the new covenant have ever looked at what the New Covenant says.

            The study of the Bible is clearly in favor of commandment keeps. Why because the New Covenant changes your heart so you do what He asks us to do. That is what keeps a man faithful to his wife. That is what keeps a man from hurting his neighbor. It is Christ in us working out his will in our lives. To tell you the truth it would be interesting to hear the whole story! What has gone on that you are not telling. What I have learned in the SDA church God is everlasting love.

          • What is that “good news” as stated in Romans 1? Please help me to understand your point.

          • Redeem,
            So you made a climatic statement with out the climax. ” I put down my great controversy and asked God to teach me His truth. I fully expected to find adventism to be “the” truth, but it’s not. He came to save us. Read the good news brother.” As Pilot once asked “what is truth”. You suggest that you found it so what is it “The Truth”?

            You see everyone believes something. Why hide it? If not SDAs then who or what? What church denomination has The Truth or knows truth or teaches The Truth.

            I was almost anticipating you to say it is the “_________” Church. But it was nowhere to be found. The author seems not to be able to identify it either so you are not alone. Several on this board who are critical of SDA or influenced by this article are even fearlful to state their source of truth and affirmed religion.

            In John 17:17, Christ stated in his prayer request, “…Sanctify them through Thy Truth: Thy Word is Truth…”

            I am SDA, but do I find the nuances of religious politics held or implied by some Adventist to be in conflict with scripture? Of course but only in a purely humanistic and individual applied way. I for one do not find it to be a threat to my faith but only to their individual witness for Jesus Christ.

            The Jews and other Sabatarians have the Sabbath truth correct. It is the only God instituted and sanctified day of worship. We do not have a 6 day week. Only God has instituted 7th day. Yes i believe his grace sanctifies also those who have not yet been convinced of this truth. God forgives a multitude of sins and who am I to complain what He chooses to forgive. It does not prevent me from responding to the truth of his word in obedience. It only assures me that where I fall there remains forgiveness to me.

            Now again I cannot be found endorsing any other denomination above what I know personally because it would be unnatural to do so and disingenuous. I do know that whatever church you are a part of that you must not only follow that church you must certainly only follow Jesus Christ.

            The denomination is secondary to the word of God and as long as it allows for you to follow your conscience and inspiration from God you should continue in it. If not it may prove injurious to your Spiritual walk and life. It may also hinder true conversion.

            Now this does not mean that we should not continue to study to determine if our application of scripture is scriptural and correct. A prayerful study will lead many to move as the spirit leads them into the will of God and to worship God accordingly. My conscience is not my only guide though. Christ example and his word point out error to me and errors of following the world and personal feelings or my own understanding. This is the burden and conflict all Christians must encounter.

            Shunning is a human condition. legalism and license are human responses to our human condition. Were it not for God’s love and grace we would and will all be lost. Our great challenge is that it is not as simple as us choosing extremes or the middle. God’s Devine Spirit must work in us and thru us as we are willing to submit. Our obedience to the Spirit of God must be based on love and appreciation of the character of Jesus Christ. We all struggle with this.

            History tells us that unfortunately even the perfect church ceases to be perfect once we join it. True Christianity is often found in those who defy dogmas and trends within there own denomination without agenda but under the unction of the Holy Spirit and inspiration of the word of God. Luther, Jerome, Tyndale and others were at odds and cast as reformer, zealots and heretical as they followed joyfully the path Christ lead them in.

            Today we ought to be so earnest to reflect God and his attributes. To serve and obey His word and His leading in their lives leading others to a higher awareness of God’s purposes. This must always be in love and always in a spirit of humility to such a degree that we can and will suffer some criticism, abuse and perhaps are cast out but we need not deny any truth just because our denominational affiliations do not embrace it.

            That is the point were many will and do leave and join other faiths that allow them room to continue to grow and so is the progression but to cast truth behind in favor of comfort to seek haven from our own failures or inability to endure is another harsh criticism will never give us peace.

            Service to God should never be subject to the ridicule of men and for those who struggle in their service they find reference to an enumerable company who have found grace and deliverance from God and as promised in Revelations.

            So I have found Truth in the word of God I have found fellowship in Seventh Day Advent-ism and I have experienced love and faith and Godly council in the Body of Christ among all believers in Jesus Christ.

            To be sure I have also known rebuke and nonacceptance at times from all as well. Don’t give up

          • Turns out John Trask was the original modern day Sabbath keeper in 1617 when he started the now 7th day Baptist church in London.
            Steve Mumford then took it to America and started a church in 1671 so Sabbath keeping was nothing new in 1848. Ellen & James White did a lot of studying at the time and knew this.
            I’ve been going to an SDA church for 6 months when after reading the Bible one day it occurred to me that the real Sabbath is Saturday. I’d never heard of Ellen White but I read some of the great controversy. It was like a romanticised Daniel Steel novel about Christianity and I skipped to the end and have no interest in reading any more of her publications. I’m getting fed up of hearing about the woman to be honest so am looking for a different church.
            The 7th Day Baptists look pretty sound but London is the closest one to me and over 70 miles away so I’ll stick with the SDA’s for now. They are genuine people but mislead in certain areas which is ironic as they seem to study and know more of the Bible than people in any other church I’ve been to. They are generally very highly educated, yet come out with some of the most foolish and unscientific statements I’ve ever heard.
            I think if a friend shuns you after 25 years because you do not believe the same things as them they were never your friend. I’ve been a Christian over 25 years and all of my best friends are non – Christians. Does that mean I am a bad Christian (I have been) or are many Christians a bit socially inept?

        • God never said we are to attend church on any specific day. He accepts our worship EVERY day! Yes, even on Sunday. Since Jesus came and died for us, we find our rest in Him, 24/7. Personally, I worship Him EVERY day, even though I gather with fellow believers to share, praise, and learn more of Him on Sundays.

          God’s remnant church is NOT a denomination or a building, and is most certainly NOT the SDA church (where I spent the first 5 decades of my life). It is true believers around the world, regardless of what day they might choose to attend church.

          I don’t hate the Sabbath and I most certainly don’t hate Adventists (many friends and family remain in Adventism).

          Oh, and you say I worship on Sun-day, the day of the sun, while you worship on Saturn-day. I don’t worship the sun god any more than you do the god, Saturn. I worship my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, Son of the living almighty God of the Universe, just as I’m sure you do.

          • Brothers and Sisters of Christ, I see you know and are aware of the days named by pagan rome and the day Sunday you worship on is the first day of the week, keep looking deeper in History, bare in mind that the Sabbath day (Seventh day) (Saturday) is very pecuiliar from all days of the week because God Hallowed it, Blessed it and Rest on it and if you think you Love Jesus, worship on the same day He kept and worshipped on when he walked on the earth…

          • WOW!!!! PERECTLY SAID!!!! I was told by an Adventists that I was sinning against God because I was breaking the 4th Commandment by worshipping God on Sunday. He said it was the say Pagans worshipped their false gods. Sun-God..But Saturn-day!! ahaha XD I’m so gonna use this next time haha. God Bless!

          • The word Seventh-day (Sabbath) is referred to over 150 times in the Bible and the first day of the week mentions only 8 times. Since the issue is about the 7th day Sabbath as day of rest from servile work, then your comment is confusing to the actual point to “attend church”. Since there was no church as we know it today but ONLY a issue of a DAY of worship exclusively for the worship of God, then the issue is not about attending church on a particular day, but giving worship exclusively to God on a specific day that He commanded us to worship, which involves more than just attending church. It also demanded no work and more…see the BIBLE for your assistance. There is no other day in the Bible expressed on the 7th Day of the week and if it falls on Saturday (Saturn) then that is the day God selected and other wise to do would be sin, as sin is the transgression of the law…if the law is done away at the cross then I assume it would be OK for one to sleep with another ones wife or husband for there is no law to say it is a sin, or me to steal from the bank or your home for there is no law to say it is a sin as it is done away with. The only time the law seems to be done away with is when it comes to the command to obey the seventh day Sabbath…funny how that is and more importantly why is it the main reason why they try to say the law was nailed tot he cross?? consider. Remember, word Saturn was committed to the 7th day not the other way around and thus if they named it Wednesday it would make no difference if it was the 7th day of the week. the other who argues about it been the sun day for worshiping the sun god is correct but it is NOT the proper argument to your point. what you need to do is find out what day of the week is the 7th day and thus honor God by worshiping him on that day. by the way, there is always the argument that you should worship God every day, but the problem with that argument, thou TRUE, is that God would not command you to “worship” on the 7th day of the week to point so serious that it demanded DEATH to the ones who did not obey, if that was not a specific day set aside from the other 6….a matter of fact the Commandments made that clear by saying “THE” Seventh day not “A” seventh day…and then made note t say, “6” days shall thou labor, BUT “THE 7th” is THE lord Thy Gods….don’t do any work.” Consider your position according to the BIBLE and “lean not on thine own understand… More can be said, but you have enough here to find out what the Bible states on the matter….Also please consider the following…”And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.” Isaiah 66:23. what Sabbath is here referred to? Food for thoughts

          • Yes, yes, yes! Completely agree!

          • what is the 4th commandment? it does say keep it holy and Sabbath means Saturday… many different languages…

          • the seventh day Adventist church chose their day of worship from the seventh day of creation which God Blessed and made holy. If Israel was where jesus was born, then he would have worshipped on saturday as well. the name of the day is irrelevant because the days of the week were taken from the roman calender so everyday is named after a roman God. And there isnt anything wrong with the church you go to. Jesus said that the sabbath was made for men and not men for the sabbath. Sabbath is basically a day to spend time with God and to have a rest from work. the day you worship him on, in my opinion is irrelevant, its whats in your heart that counts cause after all God looks at the heart and not what we do infront of others.

        • Your church is nothing but a fraud. They keep you in great ignorance. Go ahead and read the writtings of the 3 founders; Joseph Bates, James White and EGW and you will see them telling their members that there was no other opportunity for the sinners after Jesus shut the door in 1844. I bet you my last coin like you say that you have never read Present Truth 1849 nor Advent Review 1850 because both publications destroy the SDA church and its most important doctrine: Inv. Judgement. I was born 7th day adventist and I know first hand what the author is talking about. The satanic visions of EGW between 1844 and 1851 are sold to you edited in a book called Early Writtings. The same visions used by her husband to say that the gospel did not have to be preached any more are now sold to you edited as something coming from God. Only a sect only a cult would lie to its own members to keep them slave of a satanic doctrine. Excuse any mistake using your language. Samuel; Havana. Cuba.

          • Here in Portland tn I have only been told by
            A friend in the sda church that it was founded
            By EG White and never heard it mentioned again.
            Not from the pulpit nor at retreats or by special
            Speakers. The focus is always JESUS

          • Sir, as a child I was forced to go to this church, forced to go to their inadequate limited education schools for 12 years. I believe the twisted, hypercritical, extremely judgmental view of Christianity has adversely affected my entire life. My mother wouldn’t attend my wedding because we were serving champagne and having the ceremony on Saturday. She wouldn’t come to our house for Christmas because it was on her Sabbath, Saturday. She continues to have a very narrow- minded view of right and wrong. I’m over 65 and she continues to tell me when I’m transgressing god’s law. The SDA religion has caused a huge difference of opinion between us. She has caused many family members to avoid contact with her because of her very opinionated, strict adherence to SDA doctrine and the teachings of E G White. How sad that at the end of her life I can barely spend time with her because I’m evil in her opinion because I don’t adhere to the principles of her chosen church. I believe this church brain washed her 63 years ago. My education in their church school was stultifying. They wouldn’t even allow us to read Shakespeare which they said was evil. Their religion has had a huge detrimental affect on my life.

          • 1. No, true Christian, Bible-following Adventism is not a fraud. 2. You don’t have to be ‘kept in ignorance’ – you can fix that yourself – study the Bible with a HUMBLE and OPEN mind! Pray for God’s enlightenment before you do, however, and believe He will help – without that, you’ll learn nothing!
            3. You have Adventist doctrines TOTALLY skewed! You don’t understand them at all. 4. Anyone who can view the goodness of God in the Bible and OBVIOUSLY manifest in the writings of Sister White,as ‘satanic’ is sick with blindness and prejudice. P.S. As to Adventism being a ‘sect’ – no, it’s actually the most Christian and Biblically correct faith on the earth! And, just for your interest, did you know the apostles in Christ’s day were also called ‘a sect’? See Acts 28:22. Guess there’s been no end to prejudice and blindness on this planet over all those long centuries, has there?

          • Samuel
            can you please tell me what the truth is on the subjects you mentioned? In order to call something error, you must know what the truth is. Please assist me on this by revealing the truth on these errors by EG White. Please be specific to the points and do not generalize so I can bet a more direct answer and avoid surfing around things.
            Awaiting your reply.

        • Save by the Blood of the Lamb, not the ink on the conference rolls.
          The church has become so proud of her last day opportunity to spread the gospel, she places herself above Christ sometimes. How much more humble would the congregation be, if they didn’t believe they and only they had the inside track to heaven? The bride brags too much about herself, rather then Christ who gives her glory.

          Christ and Christ alone..

          • Were the Israelites of the Bible the ONLY who had the inside track on the door to Heaven? Can you name me any other in the Bible who had this honor bestowed upon them? I await your answer

          • Hi Michael Allen,

            I see this comment about awaiting an answer as to who else had the “inside track on the door to heaven,” and I see your questions about the Sabbath being mentioned 150 times in the Bible. Christianity never was about keeping the Sabbath. The Sabbath is mentioned in the Old Testament (the Jewish Torah).

            I too await to see what the answers are from those of whom you have asked, but allow me to interject: Ellen White stole from educated men like Wylie, who wrote “The History of Protestantism,” and then she said that she was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Her church is false. To get back to the Sabbath, you will have to dig into the issues of the educated men that White stole from. In fact, you will need to dig into World History…Ancient History.

            Consider the Atrahasis and Hebrew Nationalism…

            The “Lord’s Day” in the New Testament is not the Sabbath…The Apostle Paul preached on Sundays after a Sabbath’s journey…Ah!…Ah!…Don’t go there! The New Testament is not about the Sabbath. Christians who keep the Sabbath are “Second-Hand Jews” who bought into lies deeper than White’s.

            Consider why there are 60 seconds in a minute instead of 50. It is deeper than a Babylonian number base, I assure you. Consider where the measurement of time came from. Consider where the names “Mama” and “Papa” came from. Consider even where the name, “Jesus,” came from. Consider everything that you, as a human being, inherited over the last 6,000 years, including all language…Omni knowledge. The Babylonian “Extra Wise” exists. You just have to dig deep–very deep–for the truth. Be warned, it will most likely hurt, just like our History Professor said.

            There is nothing in the 10 Commandments that keeps a developer from taking land from an 80-year-old woman, and turning it into an apartment complex…

            Consider that the truth is still the truth no matter what all these different churches/religions say…

            Consider where everything actually came from, and you will rise above man’s petty concepts of both Evolution and Creation. You will even have a completely new take on the numbers, 666.

            …Then there’s one of the biggest jokes of all: Sabbath keepers wearing watches to their churches and synagogues; holding one day above another…

        • You must know that all days of the week are named by the Greeks who named the days of the week after the sun, moon and 5 known planets at that time —and the Romans as well–who named the days of the week after their many Gods.
          Saturday–your day of worship– is also known as Saturn’s day—as in Saturn, a known PLANET.
          It is disingenuious to only suggest that Sunday is SUN-day–
          The name of Everyday of the week is tied to astronomy iN some way, shape and form.

          • If your doctor told you that the flesh of a swine is the worst mean to eat on this planet among all animals around the world and that is meat carries the most dangerous diseases known to be transferred to men by an animal, and by science gives you all evidence to show this, would you thank him or berate him?

            If GOD told you the same and you chose to DISOBEY him, would you have access to His Kingdom as a disobedient subject? Is this about eating meat, or pork or about obedience to the laws of God? This is where most are confused. There are many who follow the laws who will have no place in God’s Kingdom for the did not obey because of LOVE, but because it was the law (legalism), BUT no one will be in His Kingdom that did not OBEY His word by LOVE. “IF you LOVE me KEEP my Commandments…for they are HOLY,JUST and GOOD”…Do not fool ones self to think that the commandments of God is only the 10. These are all the laws passed from and what just summed up in His character. The issue is not about eating pork, it is about disobedience to a HEALTH LAW that God chose for his people to keep their bodies and minds healthy so they can worship Him with a clean mind and Body. We put in filth, it be drugs, alcohol, certain foods or anything that harms the body when He has told us not to is outright REBELLION and CANNOT enter the Kingdom of God for it is the mandate of Lucifer to disobey. It is only unfortunate that as a people the SDA church has not discussed the real reason behind this teaching and thus those out there will use it as an occasion to throw the entire church t the ground…We may also consider that it is just sin that we just don’t want to give up and thus this would the perfect excuse not to listen to Gods reason and command on the issue of pork or unhealthy eating of anything.

            Just somethings to consider for “yourself”

          • Yep! Jesus and only Jesus. Love him, love others. No religion. Jesus. No remnant. Grace. You can’t earn salvation. The cross saves, not being SDA. Never have I been closer or felt Jesus more than being a non-denominational Christian who goes to church on Sunday. Whether SDAs want to believe it, the Holy Spirit is active and moving in “Sunday” churches. My walk with God is light and joyous, I am FREE in Christ. It’s not about me and what I do or don’t do – it’s about HIM in me that makes me love better and be more like him. A true gift!

        • Here you are, friend!

          Acts 20:7
          On the FIRST day of the week, we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight”

          1Corinth 16:1-2
          Now about the collections for God’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. On the FIRST day of the week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income..

          Acts 2:46
          The church in Jerusalem met EVERYDAY in the temple..

          Romans 14:5-6
          In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable. Those who worship The Lord on a special day do it to honor Him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God.


          Colossians 2:16-17
          Therefore do not let anyone JUDGE you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a SABBATH day. These are shadows of the things that were to come: the reality, however, is found in Christ!

          There you have it XD I would like $1,000 in cash please!!

          (I’m only kidding, I hope I don’t sound mean or rude haha. I really hope you are able to read the scriptures as a whole and really pay attention to what Christ has died for.
          God Bless mate!

        • The true Sabbath is not a day but it’s Jesus. It’s all about our relationship with Him.
          To remember the Sabbath means to distinguish it from the other days of the week. Israel was identified by their observance of rest on the 7th day because they were the only nation (theocracy) under the creator. The Bible states that God made known “the holy Sabbaths” by the “hand of Moses His servant” (Nehemiah 9:14). This means many holy days set aside for rest but it all came through Moses to man. The Sabbath did not come through any other prophet but Moses.
          There are many Sabbaths that did not occur on the 7th day so the word Sabbath should not be limited to the narrow meaning of 7th day only as some teach, it means to rest, to cease from work. The true Sabbath was not just a rest one day in seven but involved a complete change of life. All the feast days were instructions for Israel, but they were also types and shadows of something that was to come. All the feast days had relevance to doctrinal instruction; they were types and shadows of something that was to come. The Sabbath day rest was a shadow and a type. In Christ the type is done away. In Israel’s Sabbath they did not have to prepare anything but only rest at home and enjoy Gods provision. This is a type of Christ in that He did the work for us and we enter into His rest. Instead of the continuing sacrifices of animals, he became “ the lamb of God” offered for the sin of the world only once. Instead of going to a high priest at the temple to represent us, we have the great high priest who entered the Holy place once and for all. In place of literal circumcision, he gave the cutting off of the flesh, a circumcision “that is of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter”(Romans 2:28-29). Instead of Sabbath observance each week, he incorporated a day to rest from our works in the rest of God.
          Hebrews is a commentary basically on Leviticus and compares the things of the law with Christ showing he is superior to what God gave through Moses. He is the substance of the shadows that are mentioned.
          Hebrews 3:19 Explains of those not entering His rest was because of their unbelief. 
          Hebrews 4:3-11 “For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest,” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts. For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.”
          The question that needs to be answered: is God telling us to keep the Sabbath day or something much more. The “Sabbath rest” should not be equated with the keeping of the 7th day Sabbath of the Old Covenant, because the Israelites who did keep it did not enter this “rest.” The writer explains there is “another Day.” Since Joshua and Israel kept the 7th day Sabbath this must mean something other than what Sabbatarians interpret it as Joshua did not bring them into this day nor did he enter it himself. David spoke of another day of rest.  Hebrews 4:7-8… “saying in David, TODAY, after so long a time, as it is said, TODAY if you will hear his Voice, harden not your hearts. For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of ANOTHER DAY? There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.” Joshua whose Hebrew name is equal to Jesus spoke of the one who came to deliver this rest. This was another day not a specific day like the 7th but a life that is given to all through the Messiah.
          If there is another day then it isn’t Saturday. There is another rest that the author is referring to in the future. The Israelites did not enter God’s rest because of unbelief, not having faith but they did keep the Sabbath. They had the rules and regulations the oracles, but it was not mixed with faith. God has always looked to our heart, our attitude in the Spirit. The word for rest in Hebrews 4:9 is the same word for Sabbath in the Greek. It is a Sabbath that never ends. In Heb. 4, the author writes for the one who enters his rest he himself rests as God himself rested from his works. Today Jesus is our Sabbath; our every type, command, ordinance in the Old Testament He fulfilled. Israel in the Old covenant rested in a day; we rest in the Person and His finished work. It was a picture of the future rest in the new covenant; the cross has the same implication. God finished his work. Our Sabbath day is rest in our soul, it is by faith. Under faith we can cease from our own works. Works that were required for the Israelites to do in the Old covenant to be accepted by God In this way the believer enters in and ceases from his own labors. God was bringing Israel to the Promised Land after their labors in Egypt this typifies rest in Messiah. Hebrews 4:11 tells us to be diligent to enter his Sabbath rest. We do this 365 days a year. Or each and everyday. This rest is found only in the Messiah who accomplished all of God’s work in our place. If you do not cease from your labors then you are not obedient to the New Testament Sabbath. Your not living in faith.

          Not the Law, nor Joshua could bring Israel into God’s True Sabbath “rest”, “another day”, not a Seventh day or a First day, Sunday, but the day of Salvation. Hebrews 4:2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.

          Isaiah 49:8 “Thus says the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard you, and in “A” DAY OF SALVATION have I helped you: and I will preserve you, and give you for a covenant of the people, (not a day, but Christ the savior) to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; Paul quotes the Isaiah passage in 2 Corinthians 6:2 “For he says, in an acceptable time I have heard you, and in the DAY OF SALVATION have I helped you. Behold, NOW is the accepted time; behold, NOW is the DAY OF SALVATION. This day is any day one receives the Lord and enters into the rest He offers in the new covenant. With the law one had to do work to be blessed in the new covenant that operates under grace we receive by faith to be blessed.
          Hebrews 4:9-10 “There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.” One can observe the Saturday Sabbath, but to have the rest they need to know “the Lord of the Sabbath. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His. ”Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. The old covenant which the Sabbath was the seal of was a conditional one based on works.

          Hebrews 8:13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
          Glory of the New Covenant
          2 Corinthians 3:7-11, 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious (the ten commandments), so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.  10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels.  11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

          This Scripture is speaking of entering into a future God’s Sabbath Rest. Go back and read Hebrews 4:4-5 again. Don’t forget that the “Rest” which God entered into (Genesis 2) was not a physical rest from his labor. It is an Eternal rest, not once every week. In Genesis 2 on the day God rested there is no “evening” or “morning.” This “rest” neither they nor we can enter into by the law, or the fourth commandment- a day; Moses was kept out of the Promised Land, the law kept him from entering while Joshua entered by faith. These men are illustrations of types. The “True Sabbath Rest” is found only, by faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ. In the New Testament the true light comes to earth and the shadows (types which were temporary) disappear. Now we no longer look to the shadows, but to the substance, which the shadow was cast from, the substance in the person of Christ (Colossians 2:16-17). To go back in the shadows out of necessity is to have our light become darkness as if we never received it. We are undoing all that Christ has done. Jesus said in Matthew 11:28 “Come unto me all you who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.” The Apostles knew the burden of the law. This is why at their Jerusalem Council they refuted the law being added to grace. Stating those who do trouble you with words and subverting your souls. In Acts 15:10 “Now therefore, why put God to the test, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear.”

          The Old Testament purpose of Sabbath was one of completion; the number 7 is the number of completion the 8th day is the number of new beginnings. The emphasis at Pentecost is the first day. We should not confuse the Sabbath as now being Sunday. It is still Friday night to Saturday night. These are pictures of what God would do in the future as He came to earth. The Sabbath refers to completion. God rested when He was done. The Lords Day has to do with a new beginning; the resurrection to eternal life was something absolutely new. The Sabbath is relating to God’s rest in creation. The 8th day is a memorial of new creation of Israel as well as Gentiles receiving new life in God, Commemorated by the resurrection. In Scripture the number seven represents completion; it is the cycle given for us as a completed week. Jesus rose on the first day of the week, (the 8th day) giving us Eternal Life and an eternal Sabbath rest in him. 1 Peter 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.”

          In Hebrews 4:10 “For he that has “entered into” his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his. “This “entering in” is to “remain in”, the rest. It is an Eternal rest of which the seventh day is but a type. The high priest would enter in with sacrifices and come out again. Christ the eternal high priest entered once and finished the work remaining as our eternal high priest. Hebrews 4:11 therefore let us be diligent (strive) to enter that rest- we must persevere in faith to the end not become disobedient and turn back as Israel did. This was not a day but a person and relationship. The solution is clear, its Jesus, it’s found in His person and not in the Old Testament commandments he replaced. “We are delivered from the law, that … we should serve in newness of the spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter” (Romans 7: 6). This letter clearly is in reference to the Old Testament law.

          At His death on the cross, the “veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom” (Matthew 27:51), indicating that the offering of sacrifices and other temple services have already served their purpose and were finished. Christ did not bring reform to the Mosaic Law and the Sabbath, but instead installed a NEW COVENANT to replace the Old (Hebrews 8:13) The Old Testament Sabbath was based on a works covenant. The NEW Testament rest (Sabbath) is based on grace.

          • Dear Ricks, your answer is very well written but appears to leave me still puzzled. I need to be convinced about how any of the 10 Commandments of God are burdensome. If one of them is burdensome then all will suffer the same fate. Please which of them is burdensome?

            You speak about the true Sabbath not being day but Jesus. It could be Jesus, yes but please do not fly away from the fact that Jesus gave us a day to keep. He made the keeping of it a moral requirement to which if ignored could mean SIN and a transgression of His will. The mystery about this commandment is that while it was meant to give us contemplative rest others (well-meaning Christians) see it rather as a burden a sharp contrast to the Givers intention. Can man seriously tell God that He gave him or her a heavy burden to carry. What does scripture say, ‘For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome’. – 1 John 5:2,3

            Why will a church be condemned for teaching its members to observe God’s commandments? The Bible does likewise in inspiring us to teach men to turn away from evil. Jesus says’ the same, ‘if you love me keep my commandments’. We do not join a church because the commandments tells us to come and join a church. We join the body of people who believe in Jesus Christ and simply want to walk as he walked. The bible teaches that if we love Jesus (by implication if we believe in Him) then we ought to walk even as he walked – this is the outcry of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to its sister Christian churches.

          • Well said!!!

            My ONLY hope is in Christ. For me hope (Christ) = rest.

          • Very well said. Jesus came to free us from works. Grace! Changes the heart. Works and laws distract from the truth and beauty that is Jesus and the gospel! Focus on them too much, and I think you miss Jesus altogether. Jesus plus NOTHING gets you to the Father. Focus on Him alone and we can’t go wrong.

          • Thank you so much for bringing so much light to this subject that has gone so far for me and my walk in Christ.I think what you have said should clear up the matter for anybody who was confused or misled. I would love to hear more of what you have to offer on any Biblical teaching

        • beloved the Sun-day is not a worthy argument in fact all the days of the week were named after planet i.e. Satur-day is Saturn- day..Monday is Moon day etc.

        • neither do the scriptures say its on a sunday?
          The main reason christians worship on a sunday is to celebrate the day of his resurrection , which is on a Sunday. on the third day he rose again. He was died on a Friday.

          Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
          Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
          Rom 14:6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
          Rom 14:7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
          Rom 14:8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.

          there are alot of materials in the web which you can find, just need an open heart and an open mind to seek it out.

        • Romans 14:1 Now receive the one who is weak in faith, but not for quarrels about opinions. 2 One believes he may eat all things, but the one who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats must not despise the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat must not judge the one who eats, because God has accepted him. 4 Who are you, who passes judgment on the domestic slave belonging to someone else? To his own master he stands or falls, and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
          5 One person prefers one day over another day, and another person regards every day alike. Each one must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who is intent on the day is intent on it for the Lord, and the one who eats eats for the Lord, because he is thankful to God, and the one who does not eat does not eat for the Lord, and he is thankful to God.

        • What’s the point on worshiping the day?Saturday will not take you to heaven nor sunday,Only Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God will take you to heaven bro.

        • John SDA church is God’s remnant wow Mormons say that and so do JW cults .All cults claim this .In that we have falseness. SDA are a legalistic group . .They follow OT law of Sabbath day as a requirement for being saved .They take the plain scripture and filter it through the church to tell you what the truth is .Much the same as Catholicism does .The church decides what is truth .SDA is not a biblical based Christian church .It is rooted in faith plus works false gospel.Folks again much the same as the catholic church.John offers 1000 dollar to prove Sunday not the day.The question John clueless on is Sabbath day does not matter anymore .It has been done away with in Grace .Jesus completed the Jewish laws .Does John follow all the rules on Sabbath too ? Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath to the believer who is themselves priest .The true born again biblical believer honest the Sabbath everyday in their faith .By faith we are saved . John 6 Jesus says to them faith is the work God requires .The SDA people is lost in a lie .

        • God’s … remnant?
          Oh! You must not have heard about the most recent work of our Heavenly Father, that was revealed to one Joseph Smith, as another testimony that Jesus Christ lived!

          Have you heard of The Book Of Mormon?
          We at the Church of Latter Day Saints are the reunified true and living church of Jesus Christ here in the latter days.

          P.s. There is no need to observe the the sabbath since Jesus died and was resurrected. We only choose to worship on a Sunday because it is the day Jesus rose again.

          Have a lovely day, and don’t forgot to hit up your local mormon missionaries for a Book of Mormon, the truest book on earth, thats supports the bible and tells of Jesus’ ministry in the Americas.

      • Just watch this please.
        I was born into the SDA belief and I recognize that some experiences have been negative. But if you look at the overall outlook and put your biases aside, the SDA has things right. Sure some pastors have made their mistakes because their HUMAN. Humans make mistakes and THEY should be blamed. But not once in my lifetime has a true Adventist ever judged or pushed away a person seeking for God. We are not a cult and if you don’t believe that, that’s fine. I have no hate in my heart. I do NOT hate homosexuals or those who cheat on their spouses. And I’m sorry on behalf of those who have made you feel as though you’re less than human. But that’s not Adventism is truly about. I admit, I am not the most spiritual person in the world and you may just hate me already for being an SDA or part of a “cult”. But I am proud of my beliefs. I believe everything taught by the SDA church. Sure there will always be fanatics who will harass you. But I don’t intent to do that. Either you accept their teachings or you don’t. I’m not here to convert or deconvert anyone from their beliefs. That’s not my place. However, I do believe that it is my place to give you some of the facts and have you look for credible sources who will give you the information without bias. Without saying that ANY religion is a cult or anything negative. I just wish for you to make an educated choice. You should choose for yourself and not let any one person or group convince you to lose your faith by only relaying their experiences. Choose for yourself. I don’t have all the answers but I don’t believe any one person does. Do your research. HOWEVER, if you are in an abusive or terrible situation in which your life is in danger do leave. But please, I beg of you, don’t blame and entire faith based on the shortcomings of a small sect. I know most of you will disagree but I cannot just let people call Adventist naïve and ridiculous because there are many well-educated people who are SDA. We have colleges such as Loma Linda and Andrews University. And if you want to punch me or fight with me, please don’t. I don’t enjoy fighting. I recognize that we have different ideas but I am set in my faith and nothing will sway me. I have looked at other faiths and this, Seventh Day Adventism, was the only one that made sense.
        I love all people, honestly. All I can really ask of you is to be at peace with yourself.

    • I am an ex seventh day adventist and I suggest that if you search the internet you will find a lot of resources but most importantly read and study the Bible for itself.
      As far as hate and hypercritical goes I have found the SDA’s lead the pack, they are critical of everything that isn’t them, they are under the law and the law is cold hard and unforgiving, JESUS is love and I didn’t find a lot love in them just a lot of cold hard and unforgiveness.
      It is a cult, E.G.White was it’s (false) prophet, a key leader and her desendents are still in control.
      I have no problems with the statements on this site, in fact it is just the tip of the “iceburg”

      • I agree with you David Lowe! I’m out of the church too after studying the doctrines for 2.5 years. I was devastated to find out that the SDA church did not line up with Scripture; I “ran” out the door of that religion!!

        • I was a part of a church in Hendersonville tn
          Called Belmont Rivers. Very controlling and
          Spiritually and emotionally abusive as well.
          Follower of signs and wonders. A lot did not
          Line up with scripture either. It eventually folded.
          These ” cults” can pop up any where, any
          Denomination. We must watch out for the wolves
          In sheep’s clothing. Tony may have been the
          Not so humble pastor but his then wife Judith
          Controlled from the back ground.

      • I couldn’t have said it better myself, David! God bless you.

    • Strange notions : looking for “truth” in the bible, biblical evidence, right interpretations, sounds like a weird kind of treasure hunt. I’ve read the bible and found it totally unbelievable. It’s a collection of genealogies and ancient superstitions. No truth in it at all. You’ve just been brainwashed by your peculiar cult into thinking everyone other than Adventists are ignorant, blind and hateful, you poor sod, open your mind and get a life. The world is very large and much more interesting than a collection of stone age scrivenings and the ramblings of a deluded 19th century charlatan.

      • Hey Chick, I just want you to know, regardless of your beliefs, one day, when ever that is, you will stand before the Almighty God, Creator of the universe, and when your standing there your whole life will pass before you, and you will see how wrong you were, but it will be to late for you, because will say to you depart from me you evil one I know you not, do yourself a mighty favor, and give your heart to Jesus Christ, because He did die for you, because He loved you that much.

        • John, you’re really the evil one aren’t you? How else would you know such evil stuff? However I’m profoundly relieved to know that I shan’t have to spend eternity with fanatical retards such as yourself. I’m quite sure the creator of the universe will agree with me on this – Hell sounds a whole lot more pleasant, imagine all the interesting people relegated to that zone by evil Christians.

          I’m always a little puzzled that a so called religion of love produces so many spit flecked bigots who presume to know the details of any strange person’s life and have no qualms reigning evil bible curses down on the heads of everyone questioning their views, a markedly sinister peculiarity of so many pious followers of christ. Not very nice people at all, and definitely not the types that I would hang out with. Christianity in my view is one giant Ponzi scheme, flogging the idea of heaven to death and to the ever willing sheep.

          • To Michelle, Shirley, John and others: I have joined the ever growing lists of ex sda’s. I can tell you, in my short two years of experience, the Adventist Truth is very hard to swollow for Adventist members.

            There are ponzi schemes, committees from hell, excommunications and firing of ANYONE who stands up for the truth, accounts of terrorism ( examples include Barbara Clark and Patricia Moleski), slave labour and slave entitlements(Rodney Vega’s dad and indigenous people around the world), siding with governments who killed(Hitler, Communism, Rwanda genocide).

            Today, the Adventist Church will ENFORCE the UN/IMF millenium development goals in developing countries around the world, in return for an undisclosed sum The have already made significant progress by publically supporting WHO (“WHO KILLED AFRICA”) and PAHO.

            The Adventist Church believes in Eugenics(survival of the fittest, this vile concept once taught, for many decades in American Schools and supervised by ERO, is based on anthropological features of human beings, favouring the white race. All practices of blind obedience, pay, slave entitlements, including “separate conferences” are clearly based on this. EGW amalgamation theory is CLEARLY practiced right to this day. After all those kept in slavery today and paid slave wages by the Adventist Church can be clear as to why the Adventist Church treat them so apallingly:

            EGW says they are lower than the master’s brute beast; coloured people must not think they could be equal to their white…,Whites must lead. Everyone who are brave enough to take the scalds of their eyes, will see this practicein the Adventist Church: TODAY

          • There will definitely be one or two celebs there, Rolf Harris, Hitler & Jimmy Saville. You might even get to share a cell with them which would be interesting.

            You will find that much of modern day philosophy is pretty much saying the same thing as the book of proverbs in the Bible.

            Humans control churches and many in charge have their own agenda’s so they are ponzi schemes. It is our job to cut through all that and try to live life as God intended. I fail all the time but have to keep getting back up and trying again. A pious person generally is trying to cover their own weakness and insecurity. What is important is what you believe not what someone else says.

            At the end of the day we are a long time dead so understanding our fate is a fairly important thing to at least get right in your own head. There are no practise runs in life, this is it!

    • “Ellen White herself claimed that the Bible should be the only thing you look to. She claimed that if people had only studied the right way, there would be no use of her writings.”

      So you’re saying that if you read the Bible “correctly”, you’ll end up agreeing with everything Ellen White says anyway. What disgustingly manipulative circular logic.

      You seem to be very defensive, Michelle. If you’re looking for resources, Google can provide you with hundreds upon hundreds of valid criticisms of the SDA church. But forgive me if I conclude that you’re obviously not interested in a productive dialogue; you merely want ex-Adventists to shut up because our existence makes you uncomfortable and threatens your insecure faith.

      Many if not most are multigenerational members of the church who are strongly raised in SDA beliefs and lifestyle from birth (including the author of this website). They know what they are talking about, and they are not making things up. The reality of their negative experiences are not invalid just because they clash with your naive, sugarcoated view of the church.

      It is arrogant and disingenuous to assume that just because someone disagrees with you they are lying or “taking things out of context”. If the Adventist church really *wasn’t* a cult, then members like you wouldn’t attack those who have issues with it. Instead, you would seek to understand where we are coming from, try to fix the problems, and work towards reconciliation. And even if that didn’t work, you would respect our beliefs and leave the doors of fellowship open for the future.

      But you don’t.

      Instead you automatically assume people leave the church for selfish, petty reasons and ignore all the ways Adventism systematically abuses people and drives them out. You utterly demonize non-Adventists, then cry persecution when anyone has anything less than glowing to say about your religion.

      You are deluded into thinking you are God’s extra special Christians, so that means no matter how collectively atrocious your church has become, “true Adventists” are somehow magically incorruptible and you have nothing to apologize for.

      • Thank You. You said it spot on.

      • My question: Why would we need a “lesser light” when we have the Light of the World??? Dump your Ellen books and tick to the Bible and the Bible only. No risk in doing that!

        • DQAEHoly shit. Look whatever you have done or if this the real you KUDOS. I am stinitg here with my jaw open finding myself amazed that I agree with most of what you say and understand your points of view on the rest. It’s not because you took a stand for or against anything but I can’t get over how people twist themselves into contortions to find things to hate about someone they don’t know who is a goddamned Neurosurgeon of all things.All politics and other nonsense aside who would I want my kid to hang around with and emulate? Sage who’s claim to fame is calling someone a Tom or Dr Carson who might teach them what determination, hard work, sheer courage can get you. There are enough Supposed “Sages”and not enough Ben Carsons around. KUDOS

      • How can anyone defend an abomination that teaches that Satan is the final sin bearer. The scapegoat doctrine is out of the pit of hell. Ellen Was influenced by demonic forces and her ego.
        There was never a need for a prophet. I have holy writ and the Holy Spirit. I have no need of a crazy woman interpreting scripture. Really, it’s one million self righteous nuts talking to themselves. Remnant church is laughable. If any man or an Angel preaches any word other than the new covenant gospel, let them be cursed.

        • Sir, before concluding so hastily, please do a an honest thorough study of the sacrificial system’s type and anti-type as taught in Scripture. Maybe what you believe to be abomination presently, may lead to a different discovery. The Christian church needs more Berean Christians who search the Scriptures diligently to know for themselves, whether those things are so.Are you of such an illustrious company?

          • Errol, it is amazing how the Adventist Church can keep you sooo busy with Doctrine that you never have time to look up and around you to see what is going on! Ask yourself:did Christ fire anyone, did Christ persecute anyone? Did Christ write laws and policies THAT HE DID NOT KEEP, yet ENFORCED it on others? Did Christ walk past those who were naked, thirsty, hungry, etc.and run to a Church to give His tithe and offering there?Did Christ do all kinda mental gymnastics to keep scalds on people’s eyes? Did Christ hid the truth from His followers to protect the “GOLDEN GEESE”?

            “The people in darkness has seen a great light”:Why ignore this light and busy yourself with Adventist Doctrine? Christ gave his ADDRESS RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE: “I was hungry”… “I was thirsty”…”I was naked”. It is the Adventist Church that claims to “spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, isn’t it? That gospel, Errol, is very simple :Christ came to give life, abundant life and more than abundant life, satan came to maim, rob, kill and destroy. Structural adjustments, throughout history, has maimed, robbed, killed, destroyed. The Adventist Church signed up, PUBLICALLY, with the UN/IMF/WHO/PAHO/UNICEF to ENFORCE structural adjustments, aka, millenium development goals on DEVELOPING COUNTRIES for an UNDISCLOSED SUM. The UN/IMF/WHO/UNICEF/PAHO has never claimed to give life, abundant life and more than abundant life!Mdgs KILL.Mdgs ROB. Mdgs MAIM. Mdgs DESTROY!!

            So, is the Adventist Church OPENLY FOLLOWING SATAN? The UN/IMF/WHO/PAHO/UNICEF, has NEVER CLAIMED to spread the gospel of Jesus.

            Ted Wilson’s sermon “Our closest relationships and most trusted companionships should be built on the solid foundation of a common faith in [Yahuwah] and the truths of His Word. After the instruction of 2 Corinthians 6:14, “Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers,” the passage continues with the salient rhetorical questions, “For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?”

            Is it in order to call the Adventist Church HYPOCRITES?

    • The evidence is in your reply as you are insulted by the truths of grace.

    • Michelle, what was described in this article is COMPLETELY accurate. How do I know this? I was a third-generation SDA, born into Adventism, where I remained for five generations of my life. Sorry, but it’s all true!

    • I just finished talking to someone like you, and everything I said went right over her head, she was not hearing a thing I said!

      I’m from a long line of religious and truth seekers, and has sunken to being a Calvinist for some time before reading the Great Controversy, that was an eye opener and as a historian connected a lot of dots. I found out later that my GG Grandmother had converted to SDAism and I was given her old books. That was cool. Originally we were a typical bunch of New England Unitarians from colonial times and pioneers out to California, free thinkers and liberal minded, but very spiritual too. so much for background, but SDA wise I served as a teacher part time at an academy and as an associate pastor. At Southern I asked the wrong questions and was persecuted outright and tossed out. I was too conservative in some ways, but too liberal for the so-called liberal teachers there! they could not cubby hole me, it was frustrating to them so they got rid of me. I was persona non grata after that until I finally divorced my religious, mind benumbed, follow the leaders wife and left. [the kids were adults now, and I am a Grandfather.] Now I am satan and lucifer, and shunned big time.
      But, in pointing out how true it is about what the church has become since its founding, now cult like, controlling, and on the wrong track, most members sit there in their stupor and say how wonderful it is, how great SDA ministers are, and so happy [more like neurotic as though if they say the wrong thing, the job is out the door and they cant survive outside of denominational employment,] and we should not criticize them, like so many preach, loyalty to leadership is a pillar of Adventism, and I can go on, but this site is right on. You need to wake up and smell the roses girl!

      I have no problem with most of the theology, it is Bible based for sure, and the Sunday churches don’t have a clue. But there is alot to be desired too and the cult like mindset is intolerable! I remember at camp meeting at Lake Junaluska some time back when the “Cave Man” was preaching and quoting St. Augustine to back up being monastic like and sticking with the cult group and leaving all worldly friends, etc. what a bunch of nonsense. This one young SDA who came from a Calif surf family was standing there with me listening and said, ‘this dude is way out, no thanks’
      personally, I think that the church needs to get back to its original liberal and radical roots, and free thinking and being normal people who interact and are friends to the world and neighbor, not exclusive. Truth is advancing, not stagnant. I’m glad I found this site. The so-called liberal SDAs are just too cult like and supportive of the church in the wrong way while promoting bad ideas at the same time. But they are not true liberals or progressives, they think going along with anything of a higher criticism of the Bible or religion is liberal, but there is a lot more to it then that.

    • Wow… This is a fascinating read!

    • So what are you smoking, wake up, and I’ve heard this worn out business about if you say something is wrong, that is “hate”. Such use of terms is designed to shut up conversations or thinking that might cause the leaders to loose control.I’ve served for years as an associate pastor, in the literature work, as a teacher, and in other leadership roles, I know too well what it is really like. Most SDAs praise Ellen White while denying or ignoring most of what she said if it contradicts some theologian or leader. Also, I think the reason of her writings seem so contradictory is because of tampering, but I prefer to just believe the Bible in the long run, it always makes sense.


      • God’s Church. There’s your bondage right there.

      • Even your reply drips of being brainwashed. God’s Church is the People, not a denomination. You were indoctrinated into believing the SDA is God’s remenant Church.

    • I advise that you go the many sites started by former Adventists. There you shall find your answers.

    • Bunch of crazy nut

      Jobs paranoid about the end of the world

      • You are unable to see the truth until you are all the way in this cult. Once in you realize the members are insane

        • These people claim we are in the end times the us is the beast system the pope is the devils right hand. And that the mark of the beast is Sunday worship

          • These people are rigid and judgemental run

          • YEAHH!!! That’s what one told me!!! That I would receive the mark of the beast!!

    • Well said; however, the same Holy Spirit who inspired the writings of the Bible inspired E G White, whom God Himself chose to be His prophet for these days. There is no, say, “90%” or “95%” inspiration for the Bible, and “5%” E G White, or whatever! It is God who has given the messages of both, with full, 100% inspiration! The same way God has always given the gift of prophecy to all prophets in the Bible, throughout all time, He blessed Sister White also. Nothing strange or mysterious at all – people just don’t believe in God or know His ways of doing things because they’re forgetting about Him (to their tragic loss, if they only realised it). As you say, His people were not studying the Bible as He instructed them to, and that is why Ellen White was given this Biblical gift for our day. People can mock all they like – it changes nothing. It is imperative we study, and cling to, the truth in scripture in these treacherous times, for they both agree with each other and give us a sure foundation and re-affirm our hope in the soon appearance of Christ. Maranatha!

    • Hello! Is anyone waking up yet? The SDA Church is false! I won’t argue for “cult” due to the weight placed on the word, “deviant,” but I can ague for false. I resent having my spirituality attacked decades ago for people who could pay more tithe than I. Given, that was the 3-Angels Church; not a mainstream church that doesn’t believe in judging others. Nonetheless, it forced me to find the truth. I’m an Electrical Engineer; not a doctor who can pay an excess of $30,000 per year in tithe. I deal in true/false logic, and I challenge anyone in the Intellectual Arena…pastor or SDA Conference Man! Your church is dead wrong! I’m sick of it! Just as Obama said that ISIS doesn’t belong in modern society, so I say that about a church founded by a literary thief and a liar. It’s the “straight and narrow path” to eternal nothingness! I await your response…

      • …Well, no SDA pastor will ever take me up on that offer to enter the “Intellectual Arena” with me, because they know well the 1,000+ references to the literary thieving and lies of Ellen G. White. SDA pastors are trained to go out and search for converts who will pay tithe with a blind faith. That’s where they will spend their time…

        Hah! I grab the spirit of E.G. White, and I slam her down into the sands..of..History’s..discarded..lies! I declare Victory!

    • I read through ur article, and was rather appalled at the blatant lies u’ve published, Thank God I know things for myself, and not have to rely on rubbish such as this.I ask myself which SDA church u’r referring to, Certainly not the ones that I know and love, I was raised adventist, And never in all my years have I, or anyone that I know, have gone through such experiences, What r u trying to prove?Don’t u know you should not bear false witness?I know lots of people who has left the church, and we are still friends to this day, and another of your lies, we do have friends who aren’t Adventists, Matter of fact, some of our best friends aren’t of our faith May the good Lord open your eyes , and may you receive His grace to cover the bitterness and hatred you have towards his people

    • I was raised Adventist,and yes went to SDA school. Most of what is said here is so true. I finally left the SDA church, it took so long, my mother cried so much, and yes I was of the world now. I studied the bible and that gave me comfort.

    • Michelle You saying a religion in speaking of SDA show a problem right off .Note you did not just say a church .You place SDA in it own religion .If I was baptist I would not proclaim my Church as religion .I say it was Christian .You call this website hate .Strange you spit out nothing but attack and never produce any evidence yourself .SDA are a legalistic group that proclaim itself the true church .They follow OT law of Sabbath day as a requirement for being saved .They take the plain scripture and filter it through the church to tell you what the truth is .Much the same as Catholicism does .The church decides what is truth .SDA is not a biblical based Christian church .It is rooted in faith plus works false gospel again much the same as the catholic church .

    • Satan has a way of deceiving people because he needs them to embrace deception and not see the strict nature of Christ’s life. You cannot do everything you are old enough to do and expect to enjoy the accreditation of the pulpit. A Christian ought to strive to want to always please God.

    • Funny how all the SDAs are reading this. Isn’t this a satanic plant that they are taught not to view or debate?

    • I had a boyfriend who was SDA and he went through a terrible time of trying to leave the SDA church. He was raised SDA, sent to SDA preschool, elementary school and boarding middle and highschool. Then he was expected to go to medical school at an SDA university. I was not SDA. Because of this, his pastor tried to force me out of my own christian religion and to only believe the teaching of Ellen G White. I saw everything that this author of this article writes about FIRST HAND. It was exactly how my boyfriend was treated by his friends and family when he left college and decided not to go to church anymore. He was blackballed by his own family and all his SDA friends and church members. It was terrible how judgement they were towards him. When I met him he had been inactive in SDA for a year and they all thought because I was a super conservative christian they could convert me and force me to bring him back to the SDA church. It was outrageous how they forced their traditions and food expectations onto me and eachother. One time my boyfriend even took a book I was studying (I’m a jewelry designer and this is considered sinful to wear jewelry in the SDA faith) and he threw it across the room screaming that I was making satan’s tools to corrupt the world. That’s insane!!!! SDA is a cult. It’s terrible what it does to people and it DOES brainwash them into outrageous ideas and SHAME them if they don’t live up to it perfectly. IT’s UNHEALTHY!!!

      I eventually left him because he would verbally abuse me because I wasn’t living the SDA standards… which I didn’t even know or ever were taught because I was never raised in the SDA church nor did I want to convert!

      Stay away from this church, it’s poisonous!

      • SHANNA
        I feel for you. Been there done that!
        NEVER again will I ever date a SDA.
        Long time since I have commented here.
        Too bad A&E has not done a program on the SDA like they have with scientology and Leah Remini. Same crap different pile.

  2. I can’t defend all the SDA people that deviated from what suppose to be a Christ-center teaching to more religious-base tradition. Certainly there are mistreatments of members and certainly there are abuses of authorities. Most of all, certainly there are group of people that are very off on their perspective and these people form a wrong SDA culture. Have you been everywhere where there are SDA people? Or are you just concluded from a few sample of population? More importantly, are these problems unique to SDA church? Did Christ meant to create church from perfect people? When Jesus walked on this earth and actually went to church, are these people perfect?
    I will challenge you to show me any teaching that is closes to the bible, if you find it then I will leave the SDA church. Your links really show what you are all about, but let me say this – yes, people need to leave SDA when they are not comfortable in it and find what they think it’s the truth….but if the truth is what they are really seeking, I think they will find it that they had it all along.

    • “Did Christ meant to create church from perfect people?”

      According to Adventists who espouse Last Generation Theology, the answer is literally yes.

      But even for those who don’t believe in legalism, don’t all Adventists claim that accepting Christ makes you a “new creation” and gives you a “pure heart”? Where’s the evidence that being a Christian leads to being a better person? You can’t claim to be the salt and the light of the world, and then turn around and go “whoops we never claimed to be perfect, so you can’t hold us responsible for anything awful our church does!” Uh, yeah we can. Being imperfect humans does not absolve you of accountability.

      The biggest problem with religious morality is that most believers think adhering to the standards of their religious community is a substitute for being a good person. They are definitely not the same thing. And since the SDA church has a bigger-than-average list of “peculiar beliefs” and whatnot, it is even easier for them to fall into this trap.

      Isn’t it better for humans to base their morals on a sense of personal responsibility, empathy, respect, and making logical decisions that would lead to the best positive outcome in all situations? Why sit around and hope that an outside force you can’t perceive in any way will somehow magically grant you good intentions? Besides, most Adventists claim that you have to put constant effort into growing spiritually or you could lose your salvation… so what difference does Jesus make when you still have to struggle and work to be a good Christian anyway?

      • Once again you got it wrong, about the perfection thing. If you read even what EG White said, in context, perfection of character is a process. Like the Scripture said, we are saved through the belief of the truth and the sanctification of the spirit. That scripture and others blows away all of the garbage of the evangelical doctrine of we are saved just by believing or having faith in Christ. The New covenant is clear, the purpose of God is to write the Law in our hearts, we are pre-destined to be conformed to the image of Christ. The plan of salvation is the restoration of the image of God in His people. Like Wayne Dyer said in one of his books, excuses be gone, so the fake Christian doctrine of creeds over deeds, do as I say, not as I do, is a sham. As a former evangelical when I came to these conclusions reading the Bible un-leashed from theological pre-conditioning, it is clear. Shocking? But it’s true. these ideas are not new, many reformers during the 16th century reformation came to the same ideas, but were burned at the stake or killed by the other reformers. We need to continue the Protestant Reformation and finish the work of restoring the truth of the scriptures and wisdom lost.

        • I’m not the one who got the “perfection thing” wrong, it was the fundamentalist SDAs who ran the churches I used to go to. Even then, I knew their theology was silly.

          I’m not religious now, so I could care less about what Ellen White or the Bible supposedly “really” says about anything any more than I care about whether Scientologists take L. Ron Hubbard out of context or whether Mormons are misinterpreting Joseph Smith. There’s no “right” way to read a religious text that contradicts itself, is full of scientific/factual inaccuracies, and the competing perspectives of several authors.

        • Adventist followers are told to become perfect now, the only thing God is changing when he returns is your body. If you’re not perfect, if you are not sealed in his kingdom (aka a sabbath keeper) if you did not follow all the rules. Then you are going to hell.

    • Oh boy, let me say something to this, I’ve been to churches all across the country, and you know what I found, exclusiveness and even a very unfriendly atmosphere! Rarely are people friendly and inviting, its like you are not there!!!!!
      I’m a film producer and have worked in the industry for over 25 years and travel a lot, so I always made it a thing to visit as many churches as possible.

    • Ferry, you can thank God for this site. This site is anti-Adventist and allows you to comment-that says a whole lot for the moderators of this site. They are gracious to you. Adventist websites will quickly block ones who do not agree with their view points. Even committed, straight SDA, Friday night sunset keeping Adventists have been blocked from commenting on Adventist websites. So called liberal sites, like Spectrum magazine have banned those who expose the REAL Adventist truth of lies, corruption, robbing, ponzi schemes, pyramid schemes, propping moneys into their mates pockets at the top ($70 mill SPD committees to Keith Johnson’s JPG and the “investment” in Asklepion is but two of the very many examples). Like most Adventist members, your challenge and acknowledgement that Adventism is the closest to the Bible is a HUGE INDITEMENT of Christianity for the following reasons:

      The SDA does mental gynmastics with EVERYTHING it believes in to keep the blindfolds on the members:

      1. The Adventist Church believes in Eugenics (see on the Adventist Church website). Ask Richard Dawkins, and he will tell you that Eugenics is the “survival of the fittest”. Anybody “fit”, who do not blindly follow, are made “unfit” by the Adventist Church. There are too many examples, so I mention just a few: Canright, for exposing the impossibilities of Sabbath keeping and exposed SDA lies, was ridiculed and presented as a lunatic/mental case; David Dennis was Framed and fired and so was Jonathan Gallagher;Ford and Glacer View shows the Adventist Church commitment to protect a lie; Walter Rea, for exposing the truth, was branded as a Church enemy and fired-his entitlements were removed and eventually, he was paid “hush money” to keep the cap on corruption, lies, fraud and abuse.

      2. The Adventist Church practices total control of mind, emotions and pay packet. Now, look at the slave wages they pay those of “other races”(as per EGW), the slave entitlements AND salary paid to Rodney Vega’s dad, one of SDA own pastors. This is by NO MEANS an isolated case, it is replicated throughout the world to those”other races of people” as per EGW.

      3. COMMITS TERRORISM : There ars very many cases, so I will mention two: Patricia Moleski and Barbara Clark. Exposing the TRUTH ABOUT THE ADVENTIST CHURCH can be a deadly affair.

      4. Believes and enforces on their members the tithing lie which is worse than even Pharoah: when he kept Gods people in bondage, he never ASKED THEM TO PAY TITHES. Throughout the world, if you are the “other races” of people, you are paid SLAVE WAGES, you have SLAVE ENTITLEMENTS and you have SLAVE-LIKE working conditions. In poor countries, the tithing is “10% PLUS 10%, unashamedly robbing poor people of the little they have.

      5. The Adventist church practices hypocracy and double speak: On the Adventist Church website they make BOLD STATEMENTS about poverty, but then do everything they cann to pay slave salaries to “certain races”. Some, in countries and places where food prices are sky high, the Adventist church pay around $100-$200 per month to the pastor and often even less to other church workers. Those of the Nordic race (Europeans and Westerners, that is) are comparatively on sky high salaries and entitlements. Since around 2008, the Adventist Church LOWERED the salaries of Phillipino people employed by the Adventist Church, while the Westerners and Europeans experienced increase in salaries and entitlements.

      6. The Adventist Church admitted why they LOVE Phillipinos to work for them: “They just stay quiet and get on with the job, no questions asked”. All the members have to do is just follow, give their money. Members do not have access to all information, and everything gets sifted through the Adventist Church before it gets to the members, the flock, or to be blunt, the cattle. These are all cornerstone beliefs of FREEMASONARY. A careful study of Adventist own history will show that Adventism was indeed started by Freemasons.

      7. The crazy theory of Amalgamation (by EGW) runs throughout Adventist church practices. Those of “certain races” are treated appallingly, in every way. You merely have to go to the “mission fields” of the Adventist Church: you CANNOT MISS the “in-your-face racism” of a Church that has Creation as FB #6. Even I could not understand why and asked frequent questions (Adventist Church does NOT ALLOW academics to ask questions) about this FB#6 and the clear racism I witnessed and experience first hand. My research produced the amalgamation theory that completedly runs through church policies, payment of salaries, staff entitlements. Everything Adventism is completedly coloured/tainted with the amalgamation brush: the socalled “committees” allows no voice for the “certain races of people”, the committees make decisions as if they are”NOT IN THE ROOM”.

      8. Annihilation belief: Is this the reason why the Adventist Church, since its beginning, has been fraudulent, corrupt, framing others, escaping punishment for hideous crimes against humanity, firing people thus following the practices of Babylon (Three Jew Boys), excommunicatinb German Jews. Is it because the Adventisf Chudch believe there is no Everlasting Torment, no real hell, that they have Carte Blanche in this area?

      9. “I am the way, the Truth and the Light”, while the Adventist Church believes that not Christ, but EGW, the White Estate lies and the Adventist coverups, control, sexual, mental physical and emotional cannibalizing is the way, the truth, the light. The scapegoat for the Adventist Church is satan.

      10. In Adventist Schools (Adventist claim to be creationists-FB#6)evolution are taught in Christian Schools in CHRISTIAN COUNTRIES -WHOAW!!

      The above, (in my short time that I was an Adventist, now ex I found the above out quickly, as it cannot be missed) is a HUGE INDITEMENT on Christianity. If you are correct, Ferry, that in doing the above, the Adventist Church is closest to following Christ, we have a “HuGE PROBLEM, NASA, A MAJOR ONE”! “STOP EVERYTHING”, THIS RELIGION, CHRISTIANITY IS IN BIGGG, BIGGG TROUBLE!

    • Hi Ferry,

      Yes, I’ve been everywhere there are SDA People from Walla Walla to Baltimore, and from San Diego to Saint Louis, with numerous stops in Riverside…only drove past Battlecreek, though. The truth is that Christ didn’t create religions; man did, and the problems mentioned on this site are unique to the SDA Church.

      I take you up on your challenge to show you teachings that are close to the Bible! Believe it or not, non-denominational churches only go by the Bible…From your post, I can tell that you would enjoy one of those churches immensely. Don’t just sit comfortably on an SDA church pew…I can give you numerous examples of how the SDA church is false, so consider that to be there may be the “straight and narrow path” to Oblivion. Run!…Run for your very life!

  3. Greetings in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,the King of Kings, the Lion of Judah, the Root of David, the Alpha and Omega, the Creator of the universe.He rules from the heavenly sanctuary and may all the glory be unto Him!
    All in all, this article is based on personal feelings of the Author and not the bible. I challenge you to use the bible to identify the wrongs of the Adventists.
    Please DO NOT use your feelings on biblical maters, but instead use the bible. The bible has all the truth and the truth cares not what you feel or believe in. The truth will always remain true till all is fulfilled. Please read Isaiah 66 :19-23 .
    There are only two churches in line with what John was shown in vision. One dressed in white and keeps the commandments of God while the other dressed in purple and scarlet, the mother of harlots.
    The bad woman has children! Please study the book of revelations chapters 10-14.
    May God send light unto you so that you can see through the smoke screen of deception.

    • Wake up and come back down to earth man. Talk like a normal person, not like God gave you a fresh revelation orally this morning, OK? the Bible said a lot about unfriendly, controlling types and “oppression” and so forth. Jesus said enough on this. Go study or maybe the voices will tell you? And don’t be so free in using all of those holy names so liberally. you sound like some sort of fanatic type, full of yourself and spiritually prideful, maybe your not, but you come off that way. sorry to sound judgmental. I’m talking too much, but that is the sort of person I am, I speak my mind.

  4. after witnessing what happened to my mother, wow yes they are a cult. She thinks that soon a government agent will knock on my door and ask if I worship on sunday or saturday, if I say sunday they will ask where my mother lives so they can go kill her. She also has been talked into giving all her money to these crooks, she is nothing of her past self. everything she enjoyed all her life is now the devils work, no more soaps, no more good food, no more anything. She tells us we are going to burn in hell because we are not SDA, crazy stuff. She twists her version of the bible to find fact with every problem the word faces today even the nuclear crisis in japan. In less than 2 years this cult has 100% brainwashed her and destroyed her identity. I have lost my mother to these crooks, they stole her for her money plain and simple…she gives a fair chunk to them, so sad.

    • I saw this happen to a man I’ve known most of my life who married into the church. He was raised in a non-religious broken home with a father who abandoned him in a very hurtful way. Marrying into his wife’s family was the first time he really felt like he had a family at all. Which made him very susceptible to their influence.

      Unfortunately, his wife and her family are very conservative, I’d even say leaning towards “historical” Adventism at times. They are nice people on the surface but very manipulative underneath, as most insular religious groups are. When they first got together it was pretty much a “missionary dating” situation; she was going to try and convert him, and if her parents approved they would get married as soon as he was baptized. Since she was a pretty girl with a charismatic personality and he was so eager to be accepted by them, he practically devoured everything they told him to believe. Growing up without a father to give him a solid identity as a young man, he adopted the one his future wife’s family wanted to mold him into.

      What’s truly sad is because of this religion, he chose to align himself with the in-laws at the expense of his real family. I never heard him talk about his mother or siblings outside of his attempts to convert them, or some other condescending type of context (because Adventists are better than non-believers, even the non-believers you supposedly care about). His wife encouraged him to try and break up his younger brother’s engagement to a Catholic girl. They would try to be sneaky about teaching Adventist doctrine to his “un-Christian” nephews when his sister wasn’t around. His wife also would not allow their own children to visit their paternal grandmother without pre-screening the food and making sure they weren’t allowed to watch “satanic” Disney cartoons (but it’s okay for her to push her beliefs on THEM). I’d never let my spouse disrespect my family like that.

      He is a smart man, VERY smart. He is talented, creative, kind, and intellectual in ways that the people he has chosen to surround himself with are not. I mourn for the person he could have been if he’d only been able to meet someone better and make peace with his sad childhood in a healthier way. I’m so scared that his control freak wife, who has recently started embracing some really hateful theology and political beliefs, is going to brainwash him to the point of no return. I sometimes see him rebel in little ways, like giving his kids caffeinated soda or playing video games his wife doesn’t approve of and telling them to keep it a secret from their mom… which only concerns me more, because there are obviously trust issues there. But he can’t stand up to her or disagree on religious beliefs without putting his family in jeopardy… the one loss that would break his heart forever.

      I really hate what religion does to vulnerable people. I’m so glad I left.

      • Hi Kate. Thank you for sharing this – and the story greatly disturbs me. I have yet to be able to bring myself to write about the ‘historical’/concerned brethern movement in the church because it is actually incredibly shocking. I am glad that you were able to not be pulled into it: this is where the worst abuse happens – physical, emotional and unfortunately sexual as well. It is kept very hidden and if I wrote a blog post, I’d reveal how it is kept so quiet.

        If you stay connected to this friend, and act as a safe place for him to ever come to if he starts to doubt, then you might one day be a lifeline for him if he ever wants to leave it. I’ve got a friend that I act as that for who is involved in the historical adventist movement. But it is very hard to leave, and since he now has a family in it – I suspect that he will probably just become more and more ‘conservative’ over time.

        • I don’t hold out much hope that he’ll ever abandon the church; even in the unlikely event that he ever wanted to, I’m sure the consequences of leaving would far outweigh the benefits. I doubt his wife would tolerate an interfaith marriage, and divorce wouldn’t be an option for him (especially while the kids are still at home). Sacrificing his personal beliefs for the sake of his family would be no contest. She on the other hand strikes me as a bit of a sociopath who puts her commitment to ideology ahead of healthy relationships.

          I do stay connected with him, albeit distantly. I always remember his birthday. We keep in touch through the occasional e-mail or text. I’ve befriended his kids (two of whom are now young teens) on social networking sites. At least they still have a fighting chance to break free.

          • Wow Kate. Thank-you. I’ve been married to a multi-generational SDA for 6 yrs, together almost 7.

            What you say is 100% true.

            I’ve been to dozens of SDA churches, hundreds of services.

            Most of the people like any church, are beautiful people.

            But behind the church, & in my wife’s heart, is a vicious demeaning condemning accusing spirit.

            I am still married to her. Even a week ago yesterday I was at a SDA church. Like I said, I have gone hundreds of times with her. She went once to my non-denominational Calvary Chapel church & walked out during the message. And if you have ever heard Pastor Bob Coy preach he is far from a preacher that would cause a normal person to leave. Thousands come to faith every year at my church. Literally thousands.

            I have never seen one person ever get saved either through my wife, or at the dozens of churches & hundreds of services I’ve attended. And most churches we go to are empty & dead inside. Once again, very nice people, but the Holy Spirit does not reside in any way in this cult. Sorry.

            My life is a wreck since meeting her. I did my research before we married & she assured me she does not follow Ellen White, nor even SDA. Just sabbath. Even though that alone was wrong I know I am so far from perfect.

            Well, almost 7 yes later, just today she sent me Ellen Whites readings & teachings. This women is a heretic. SDA is a cult. They were founded on an error.

            My wife went to SDA schools, her son does now. SDA boarding school.

            It’s so deeply engrained in their life it seems there is no way out.

            I am getting a divorce.

            The Word is true when it says to be equally yoked.

            My mistake. 7 yrs wasted.

            I pray for God to open her eyes & heart. To free her of this almost invisible bondage disguised as the true word of god.

            It’s a disgrace.

            If you want to hear the truth, download the “Calvary Chapel Philadelphia” app. My original church. Once downloaded go to the “what about” section.

            You will hear one of the most blessed & gifted teachers of the Word explain the sabbath, all from scripture.

            We need to pray for these brothers & sisters. God died for them just like us. We need to pray for their scales to fall down. Only by the power of our magnificent God.

            In Jesus name.


        • Sorry to comment on an old thread a year later, but I just wanted to follow up on this and share that my friend’s story turned out to have a somewhat happy ending.

          Long story short: the conservative SDA wife turned into the complete psycho I was afraid she’d become and ended up divorcing him for another man who was more into her crazy beliefs (and it helped that he happens to be a rich Ben Carson style politician in the local right wing party). He didn’t want to break up the family and tried to stop it, but she became so hateful and emotionally abusive he eventually had to cave in and give her what she wanted.

          I learned all this after he reached out to me to rekindle our friendship. He’s begun healing the rift with his real family, spending lots of time with his mom, and keeping his distance from the in-laws — which is a huge relief. His children have to deal with their mother’s drama and neglect, but they have an excellent, loving father who is giving them freedom and trying to be a good example. She got the house and primary custody of the kids, but they spend weekends and summers with him (I hear he plans to take them on a road trip this summer!). They are public schooled now (their mother has no time for them anymore with her new dating life and political campaigning), but the bright side is that they are getting a much better education with access to differing viewpoints and friends from other backgrounds. As messed up as it sounds, I’m glad that they are starting to resent her a little bit… I hope that means they’ll start to question the spiritual abuse she shoved down their throats.

          Religiously, my friend’s still a Seventh-day Adventist; albeit one who no longer wants to associate with the fanatical side anymore. He sees what he’s been through as a blessing in disguise and says he is happier now than he’s been in a long time. His faith seems to be an anchor for him and his children in these rough times, which I can’t fault him for. He has at least left the old church they used to attend and goes to one with a less conservative environment than the church his in-laws run. He dated one person outside of the church for a few months afterwards, but they broke up and he’s decided that he’s going to focus on the kids and (hopefully) take it very slow with getting re-married. He started working on a Master’s Degree and in general seems to have developed a lot of inner strength and independence since this happened, so I think he’ll be okay.

          Meanwhile, the trashy ex-wife seems to be digging herself into a hole of increasingly pathetic behavior that I won’t even bother to list here. Part of me wonders if she had some kind of breakdown stemming from her own upbringing that ended up in a horribly misguided attempt to rebel. She is dating a much older man and this whole thing reeks of daddy issues, extreme insecurity, and a desire to grab power and autonomy in her life the only way she can. I used to REALLY hate her guts, but now that she isn’t hurting my friend anymore I just kind of feel sorry for her.

          Anyway, the important thing is my friend and his kids are free from toxic Adventism and toxic people. I’m so happy! 🙂

          • Hi Kate,

            Thanks for taking the time to update this thread, I appreciated knowing what ended up happening to him. I’m glad to hear his life is getting back on track, it sounds like a very rough year for him but he is handling it well.

  5. I have served the SDA denomination for 23 years as Pastor, teacher and General Secretary. I left the denomination in 2008 because I have found the Lord Jesus Christ to be the centre and fulfillment of the old Testament. Jesus says he is the Truth. Adventist says they are the truth. Jesus says he is the way. Adventist says they are way. You must leave your church and come to them, Jesus says he is the life. Adventist says they are the life. The world needs to hear them.
    Adventist keep the Sabbath not the LORD of the Sabbath.

    • Would love some info from you…so confused

      • Dawn,
        I have been reading some very helpful information on It is the website of Grace Communion International. This denomination used to be called the Worldwide Church of God, and they used to be sabbatarians, until they discovered the truth that Dexter was talking about — that Christ has fulfilled all the Old Testament laws, including the Sabbath Day. The Sabbath Day command was for Israel alone, not for Gentiles. It was a picture of what Christ would do for us spiritually through faith. He has given us rest from sin and from striving to attain perfection through the law. Now that He has come and done this for us through the cross, we are no longer under the supervision of the law’s requirements. If you go to, you can ask questions, and they will promptly respond. They have been extremely helpful for me. Also, they recommend a book called Sabbath in Christ, by Dale Ratzlaff. I have ordered a copy for myself and am looking forward to reading it. Dale Ratzlaff was a SDA pastor as well and fully understands all the Biblical issues involved. Blessings!

      • Hi, Dawn. I remember feeling exactly as you do. I would suggest a couple of things. First, here is a link to a page on Facebook where there is a fabulous magazine edited by “Formers” who explain things SO clearly.

        And also, I encourage you to go to this website and read the testimonies of those who have left Adventism. It really cleared up a lot of my confusion a number of years ago when I was still questioning things about Adventism and the wisdom of my leaving the church.

        We now attend a beautiful, loving little nondenominational church (ironically in a rented SDA church on Sundays!) where the teaching is ALWAYS straight from scripture (we are currently studying our way through the book of Romans, and have been at it for over 2 yrs., which tells you how thorough the study is). And most important of all, pray, pray, PRAY for the Holy Spirit to guide you into His TRUTH!

        God bless you as you seek Him. If I can be of any help to you person-to-person, my email is:

      • Dawn, let me say this, as to Sunday as opposed to the Sabbath, there is NO argument about that, differences of preferences, but to say Sunday is the Christian Sabbath is a non-fact, history and the obvious teaching of the Bible is simple and straight forward on that.
        But SDAism as it now exists is not Biblical to a great extent and has become a cult like most of the main line, acceptable churches. I have no quarrel with Sunday keepers who don’t go around attacking Sabbath keepers or trying to justify Sunday worship as Biblical, its just a tradition with them, nothing more. At least they are honest about it. As for the SDA health message, most SDAs are meat eaters, but eat fake meat on Sabbath, that is so lame. I follow the organic and natural life style, and am a yoga person, and follow a vegan lifestyle too. Its sensible, spiritual, and right on. Its that simple, I don’t judge people who are not and have lots of friends who eat meat. they sure seem to love the food I cook though, LOL!
        We need to just follow what is sensible, reasonalbe, and conscious. I attend a Unitarian group with a wonderful lady and they are so willing to talk about theology and truth in a non judgmental way and use reason and encourage everyone to adopt a theology that makes sense to them. We have wonderful conversations on truth and what it is, and they engage in real service to humanity like the Bible said to do, love it!

    • Dexter,
      Thank you so very much for your comment. My cousin became a Seventh Day Adventist a few years ago. She was raised in a legalistic “Sunday” church, which taught that Sunday is to be strictly obeyed as the Christian “Sabbath.” A few years ago, she found an Adventist teacher on the Internet, and began asking questions. At that time, she was going to a more grace-centered Sunday church, and she asked the pastor why the Sabbath had been changed to Sunday. Unfortunately, the pastor never returned her phone call. The pastor of the SDA church nearby was happy to answer her questions, and I don’t think she has ever looked back since. I have been trying to help her understand exactly what you said: that Christ is the Reality to which all the Law and the Prophets testify. I have worked to the point of exhaustion trying to explain to her that the Sabbath has found its completing/fulfillment in Jesus Christ. But it has been to no avail. She keeps saying the same thing: ” ‘Thus Sayeth the Lord,’ and that’s good enough for me.” I cannot get through to her on any level. It is like talking to a brick wall. Her husband finally cut off the dialogue, saying they would be praying for me, that the “truth would be brought to me.” At this point, I am just sad and worn out. She does not seem to have the ability to understand the relationship between the Old Covenant and Christ. I have referred her to a couple ministries which are ex-Adventist, but this only makes her suspicious (since they are “ex” Adventist). I feel like the only recourse right now is prayer, because only the Holy Spirit can show her the wonderful truth that Christ Is Our Sabbath Rest. Thanks again, brother!

      • Hate to say this, but Sunday is not anything but the holy day of the Roman Mithra cult of the military and forced upon the Christian church as law by the papacy, that is it. All attempts later by protestants to make it “Biblical” are johnny come lately attempts to excuse this practice. The early Apostolic Christians were Sabbath keepers. Those are the facts of history, the Sabbath is part of the Ten Commandment Laws, you can’t separate it out from the rest, as I said, that is a theology that came about about in the 18th century when it became clear that Sunday was strictly a Papal institution that proved the Pope’s power to change laws since he was the Vicar of Christ on earth. I think Christians need to get over this and move on to a more Biblical theology.

        • If you could only hear yourself. Being passionate about error does not turn error into truth. Read the book or Galations 3 times in a row. If you can still stand up for Ellen and S.D.A. Dogma you are dishonest or you do not have the ability to read and comprehend what you read.
          Same goes for Hebrees 9. If you can read Hebrews 9 and still support the Investigative Judgement then you are brainwashed or so stubborn that you just can not understand simple passages.

    • Such conviction and truth.

    • Wow, I’m so glad I found this website!!! I was wondering what the heck was happening to my dear friend who has joined the SDA church and has changed dramatically (not for the good)! God had given her such a heart of pure love for people and Him since her childhood (we were both raised in atheist homes) has recently joined the SDA church and in only one month’s time she has become extremely angry and hateful towards “people in the churches and in the world that hurt God by not obeying his 10 commandments” and shockingly just said for the first time ever she feels “pure righteous hatred” for those who believe God is “unconditional love and unconditional grace!” She also mentioned how “she’s not sure if she could be friends with me if I walked away from God and became a Hindu or Muslim, which I was terribly confused (since I have accepted Christ and die daily to live by His Spirit and would never go to some powerless religion like that after I KNOW the truth-and Jesus Christ ‘IS’ The WAY, the TRUTH and THE LIFE Himself!) as I felt she was almost covering up what she really wanted to say and it was that “if I wasn’t going to join the SDA” she and I might not be able to be friends!

      She said God is about to rain down fire and brimstone on basically everyone who doesn’t obey the 10 commandments, and I had to stop her and explain how this is not “the heart of the Father” that has been revealed to her previously, nor from Christ’s own MOUTH, but she argued that she had been deceived about God’s character and that he wipes out entire nations with fire because of his hatred of their sin. I understand this about God and how holy he is, but ultimately HIS HEART was shown through Christ who said in Matthew 5:44 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ “But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous!

      Also, it says NO MAN CAN EVEN ‘COME’ unless the Father first DRAWS HIM. I know from experience we can only plant the seed and God is the one that causes it to grow! Secondly, we are ALL SOLD UNDER SIN, which the law actually STRENGTHENS SIN (this was the Law’s purpose to CONDEMN US ‘ALL’ UNDER GOD)! God clearly showed me this years ago and she now thinks I believe “false doctrine!” I completely understand righteous judgement, but that’s why God sent Christ to FULFILL EVERY JOT AND TITTLE of the ENTIRE LAW because NO MAN COULD KEEP THE WHOLE LAW (yes, the 10 commandments as well, but it says you are a debtor to the WHOLE LAW if you are seeking to be justified by the law vs. the Spirit), so that by the law, which ‘WORKETH WRATH’ Romans 4:15 (which was it’s purpose to condemn ALL under sin) we would no more be a slave sold under sin, but now a SLAVE TO Christ’s RIGHTEOUSNESS Romans 6:18 and walking in newness of THE SPIRIT!!!

      She talks constantly of the 10 Commandments now, and she just cannot hear me even when I read straight out of Romans about this. She just says Paul is only talking about the ceremonial law and that IS NOT TRUE! Paul WAS TALKING ABOUT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS BEING A “Ministry of D-E-A-T-H”-2 Corinthians 3:7.

      I’m literally watching the same exact same that happened to me about 15 years ago before God revealed this to me about the letter of the law vs. the Law of the Spirit in Christ Jesus (which he fulfilled and also walks even above the letter, and through walking in newness of life in Christ we ALSO walk as a dead man, which NO DEAD PERSON IS SUBJECT TO ‘ANY’ law, but are now DEAD TO SIN AND NOT UNDER THE LAW, but UNDER GRACE which empowers us to walk in The SPIRIT of the law (which through our sinful nature the letter of the law KILLED US Romans 7:11), but now we are reckoned ALIVE in Christ and clothed in HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS by faith).

      I am in prayer that she will come out of this like I did! I love her in Christ and she is such a special person to me, but “this little leaven” has already leavened the whole lump and I am praying for FREEDOM soon! Amen!

  6. This is interesting, i am non SDA but was dating an SDA, he asked me to visit his church, where you are judged before they even get to know you, he was told why he did not pick a girl from his church but decided to date a non believer, later he pressured me into being baptized which i did, but i wanted to take things slow so that i get to know what sort of church i was getting into, they have wired rules like, when singing in church no clapping.

    I left the churn and my boyfriend for fears of being brainwashed into a religion-cult like

    • Good for you Judith in the word of God it very clearly states a little leaven, leavens the whole loaf, Judith, go to your bible and look up leaven, you will find it in Galatians chapter 5: verses 1-9
      I believe you will find out something very interesting in it, keep looking up Jesus is coming back and soon, be one of the wise virgins who were invited into the wedding feast, where the other 5 were left behind, when they went looking for more oil to trim their lamps putting more faith in the oil then in Jesus.

    • You did the right thing, Judith!

    • Judith,
      I want to encourage you to keep searching the scripture for answers. I had a very similar experience as you. I started attending an SDA Church through the invitation of a college friend, two years later I met a wonderful young man and we dated. After over two years with him, I found myself (and I attribute this solely to the work of the Holy Spirit) reading up on EGW and trying to understand the Investigative Judgement. At this point I had been solidly attending SDA church for three years but not committed to bring a member or being baptized.
      I grew up in a Sunday church and have been assured of my salvation since I was 13. The moment I realized that my bf did not believe he was saved was when I knew I had to dig deeper. The internet is a wonderful place! I joined several facebook groups that engaged in discussions avout EGW and her SDA doctrines. By reading both sides and doing a lot of homework on my own, being lead by God to websites and writings that expose the falseness of the SDA prophetess, I decided I could not continue attebding a church with such anti-biblucal doctrines. I left the church, my boyfriend, and even the city I was living in (to avoid drama for me AND my ex).
      Please keep searching, good websites are EllenWhiteExposed and TruthOrFables.

  7. Hi

    I’m grateful for this site. My sister drew my attention to it. It’s the first time either of us – we were raised In a third generation, British Adventist family – have come across a fellow-leaver. Your descriptions of Church pressures and behaviours find in us a deep resonance.

    While our dear parents were, for six days a week at least, moderate and tolerant – wonderful – people. And while the British church of those childhood, postwar days. was a fairly charming, quaint, kindly, low-key experience, one could still discern the same sinister elements you describe, mingling with the normality.

    We had no great difficulty in accepting our disbelief. Nor did our parents or any Church member often attempt to apply any great pressure because of it. Nonetheless our Mother can, sadly, never forgive herself for failing to ‘train’ us well enough. She also treats and regards her non-believing children radically, if unconsciously, differently from the single, somewhat disturbed, sibling who has remained nominally within the fold. Interestingly, a church member recently cited our non-Adventism as reason to challenge my mother’s right to be an Elder.

    A religious/Adventist upbringing like ours brought a whole complex of benefits and disadvantages, I can’t even begun to unscramble one from the other. I still feel uncomfortable about eating pig meat. Mire seriously, I still deeply resent the religion-inspired family split, and the persisting slight sense of separateness from others, the World.

    As to the Adventist Church – in itself a rather pathetic irrelevance in the greater world – it remains representative of a global, dark-age phenomena. Many of the issues you justly relate are, tragically, characteristic of many activist political movements and deistic faiths, whose activism crowds our daily news media. The vulnerability of the human mind to self-sustaining control mechanisms, the susceptibility of our human spirit to submission, and our propensity for group-think hatreds – never cease to depress and perplex. One has only to cite a raft of violent world events of the past 20 years – 2,000 years – to witness the anti-life force of such possession.

    • Anthony, I agree with most of what you say. Today, in addition to non-Sda siblings trick to keep women out of leadership roles, the Adventist Church uses the tithing lie to keep women and men out of eldership and other church positions.

      In my short time being an Adventist, I found that, yes, in public view, the Adventist Church loves to be presented as a “pathetic irrelavance”, and they go to great lengths to portray this image. Dig a little deeper and you will find a very, very different story, and a Church, the Adventist Church, being a fullfillment of their own prophesy, AS LONG AS THE MONEY IS RIGHT. This Church, the Adventist Church has impacted on society and have joined against the very people THEY SAY, God created:

      1. Signed up with Hitler for an undisclosed sum: 26 mill died. The Jews were excommunicated from the Adventist Churches in Germany. Research shows that some of the Advebtist Church officers were also “Heil Hitler” men.

      2. Signed up with US government (whom Adventist Church identify as part of the Beast business in their prophesies)in “secret operation whitecoat”(declassified)for an UNDISCLOSED SUM. 2,400 young people were offered in this secret operation to develop and test Biological and Chemical weapons of Mass destruction.

      3. The Adventist Church openly supported communism, both the leaders and the delegates from all over the world at the 1985 Conference session. These delegates, when the communist flag entered “dripping with blood, broke out with “spontaneous applause: 110 people were killed by communism and millions more tortured. How much did the Adventists receive from communist governments.

      4. Rwanda Genocide: Adventist Church received an undisclosed sum from Western governments: 6 million people died.

      5. In Hungary, a visit by the Adventist Church to the Hungarian government led to the persecution of 1,300 hungarian Adventists who stood up for what they believed.

      6. Before 2003, the Adventist Church signed up with the UN and UN related bodies like IMF, WHO for an UNDISCLOSED SUM to ENFORCE the millenium development goals in developing countries. This agreement was ratified at the 2003 Conference sitting in the USA. Later, the Adventist Church published their public signing of the PAHO agreement, continued to openly,in their publications, confirm that the Adventist Church will enforce the UN millenium development goals. Remember now a few outcones of these these goals: it caused Famine in Malawi, brought NZ economically on its knees and it was an unmitigating disaster, caused mayhem, chaos,instability with nearly a country president every month, poverty, disease and death in Argentina.

      Anthony, the Adventist Church thrives to be presented as insignificant. As you can see,they have had quite a big impact in history. They are about to make a big impact with the millenium development goals YET AGAIN!

  8. I am 65 yr old, retired, veteran, grandparent, married.

    as one who believes in the BEREAN policy, all that I can say is this:
    The catholic protestants (SDA) that call themselves so-called christians, are in fact saturday catholics at best. NOT anywhere in all of the scriptures is saturday of the gregorian calendar , the true creation SABBATH. They cannot in truth find any scripture that teaches the catholic saturday doctrine, it is a CULT! The gregorian calendar is all about the catholic protestant holidays and worship days of all religions– SUNDAY, FRIDAY (moslems) Saturday– sda and sdb etc. LAMENTATIONS 2:6 the true ssabbath of creation has been forgotten and forsaken, this reference is not talking about the saturday catholics (SDA) ! The Apocrypha ,the books of Enoch and Jasher teach about the creation calendar sabbath, not saturday!

    Not anything is Holy about saturday of the gregorian calendar of ROME! Revelation 14:1 tells us who the true followers are and to become !


    • Great, but you need to be telling all this to the “bad” Adventists still in the church, not to people who have left. Getting mad at the people who are pointing out the problems instead of the ones causing problems is why Adventism as a whole is stuck in a spin cycle of hypocrisy.

  10. i have left the seventh day adventist church because Ellen White was not a prophet, the whole thing were they think when jesus died he went to heaven to cleanse the sanctuary?

    • Wellllllll,…..think about that, read Hebrews, it is very clear in there about Jesus as the High Priest fulfilling in reality what the sanctuary service the Israelites performed in times past. I see no problem with this. Actually I was reading in some research back in college days that some of the early Puritans in New England considered Christ’s work in the Heavenly Sanctuary to be as important as His death on the cross. In reality if you study the service of the temple, the sacrifice is essential, but has to be administered in the temple before God. Keep an open mind on this. I believe that Michael Servatus, who was burned at the stake by jean Calvin for being too radical of a Christian, even taught something similar in his book on the Re institution of the Christian Faith, or a return to Apostolic Christianity. Unfortunately our current brands of Protestantism are founded on the theology developed in the dark ages.

  11. As a lifelong SDA, I find there is much misinformation about the Church. The opinions I express are my own and do not represent those of all Adventists. Fortunantly many to feel like me. I do NOT feel the SDA church is perfect. I do feel, however, it is the closest to following true Biblical teachings of any denomination I know of. I consider myself a Christian first, and a Seventh-day Adventist second. I feel salvation is granted by the grace of Jesus Christ, based on His death at the Cross. Salvation cannot be earned, and is not exclusive to people based on ANY one denomination. I agree with the SDA church on the Sabbath, as you will not find one scripture that transfers the solemnity fron the 7th day of week to the 1st day of week. Sunday keeping is a tradition. I do not condemn those, who in good faith, truly believe otherwise. It is true there are many judgemental people in the SDA church, but guess what? All churches have those types. As for the eternal destruction of weeked, take a look at John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes shall NOT perish, but have everlasting life.” If you believe the wicked burn throuoghout eternity, you are granting THEM eternal life (although not a good life), which is contrary to the Bible. May God bless you all.

    • The Old Testament Sabbath given to Israel was NEVER changed. I left Adventism almost 20 years ago and now attend a church that meets on Sundays, but Jesus IS MY SABBATH. I have sweet and COMPLETE rest in Him 24/7, and it’s no longer about A DAY. Sabbath observance is no longer a requirement for the New Covenant believer – Worship Him EVERY day, and attend church to learn more of Him, lift your voice in praise, and fellowship with other believers on any day you wish.

    • Good point Michael, and here again concerning the idea of man having an eternal, immortal soul, once again we have for too long adopted the dark ages and Greek idea on this, not the biblical. The Apostle Paul made it clear that immortality is NOT granted to us until the day of resurrection, period. ” God alone hath immortality’. You know, if you do not want to be part of the SDA cult faction, and your out the door, then your kind of like in exile, but I would rather be a free agent then enslaved to a cult lifestyle. It funny, but Ellen White said very clearly that most the loyal Christians who were honest seekers after truth are still in the other churches and that most of the current SDAs would forsake the truth of the Bible and go worship the beast like power that will rule in church and state in the end. I can see how that will happen, the followers will just blindly do what their leaders tell them to do.

    • Michael, I’m glad you pointed that out! Christ is first and He is our only salvation. Therefore, being a Christian should be our most important identifier. Genesis 2:2-3 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that He had done. This was given at the beginning of time. Not just for Isreal, but for all people to observe. He sanctified and made the day Holy. What other day did He do that to? Satan just loves how everyone is bantering back and forth over what day of the week we should worship on. I just feel I would prefer to worship on the day that God sanctified. Each day we should rise and give Him thanks! It is the Sabbath day that we are to treat differently from the rest.
      As far as how people have been treated in the SDA church, I can tell you folks, that happens in many churches. Whenever people are involved, sin can get involved. We have all fallen short of the glory of God. Now may God bless each of you and fill you with His Holy Spirit.

  12. I was born into the SDA church in the 1960s. I left as a teenager, with most of my friends, we were like the “Lord of the flies”. I joined the Church of Scientology and went through other doors into the occult.

    I was susceptible SDA then was a cult. I was called a “whore” when I was a virgin because my family was not popular. Although my great-grandmother donated much land to the local church I was born into, which left our family impoverished.

    What has amazed me most is people never looked back to the time the occulted defectors were functioning in. Spiritual movements in the early 1900’s had female spiritual mediums – EG White was that front. Big egos searching gematria and signs and wonders did not agree with their origin and split to form a adrenalin/hypnotically induced message. You get that in all religions or paths not just Christianity – they split, reform with powerful message and become control freaks.

    In my later life, I returned to G*d and started to learn Hebrew and agreed the seventh day is for rest. Based on my previous political involvement which had become sympathetic to Jewish people it was not suitable to attend a Synagogue.
    So I returned to a country SDA church only to worship on the seventh day. I stonewall the rest of the natter and clutter of such and just obey G*d and rest.

    Amazingly enough after doing meditation practices in Hinduism, I found how quick and deep my consciousness shifted for Sabbath, or Shabbat and how rejuvenating Shabbat was to physical body, mind and spirit. Oppressive law enforcement is pathetic religiosity, rather than enjoying benefits on the rest day.

    Listening to some televised Adventist ramble is like listening to a bowing, apathetic worm trying to assimilate rather than enjoy freedom from the power of Yeshua’s blood. People can work out their own truth, barbaric control, if not at times hatred and trying to keep a veiled faced to the world is cultish. So as I watch quietly and enjoy some people I knew from a child, I also know the power of Yeshua’s grace.

    • Thank you lily, that was refreshing to read.So much so I kept your testimony. I think that you are practicing a more ‘enlightened’ form of Adventism. I find meditation and yoga to be essential to my physical and spiritual life, while my ex-wife and her family think I’m full of the devil!

      • At my old church there was this guy who saw a Walter Veith sermon and was “convicted” that practicing yoga was satanism. Apparently the poses give demons extra easy access to possessing you. Who knew!

  13. The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. The Sabbath was created at the beginning of time. It was not even man’s seventh day but his first.It is the day that God sanctified and blessed and asked man to refrain from working on this day but rest.Jesus kept the Sabbath while he was on earth.
    You see, bible study and continuous prayer is crucial for every Christian.A deep relationship with Christ is what is important. However let us pause for a moment and think. When you are in a relationship with someone you love you do what pleases them and what keeps the relationship going (let alone God). You don’t just do what you believe is right or just what you think is best and leave the other person in the relationship to take it or leave it.
    We are beginning to treat our Christian lives this way. When you are a Christian you diligently seek from the bible what Christ requires of you.I want you all to remember this, that salvation is FREE BUT NOT CHEAP.
    Some Adventists may be over zealous and judgmental but remember that salvation is individual. On the judgement day, the writer of this article will not stand before God for you. Stop spending precious time trying to get people out of church and work on your own salvation.
    Which one of you who have written comments here about the Adventists can say the church is 100% bad and know 100% that people in the church need to leave else they will perish at the end of time and that God should strike you dead if you are wrong. Can any of you say that?
    Mind you, Jesus’s teachings were received in the same way by those that lived in His time.Some even said he was possessed by a demon. Those that crucified him honestly believed they were doing the right thing. You should all pray and think again.

    • “I was confirmed in all that I had stated in Minneapolis, that a reformation must go through the churches. Reforms must be made, for spiritual weakness and blindness were upon the people who had been blessed with great light and precious opportunities and privileges. As reformers they had come out of the denominational churches, but now they act a part similar to that which the churches acted. We hoped that there would not be the necessity for another coming out.”

      ~MS: 1216, pp.5-6.

  14. I am not an Adventist, but I have visited their meetings and was never asked to return or consider conversion. The atmosphere is very much open and light. So, I would say that, to the contrary of what is being said here, Adventism supports free though and community. The vegetarian diet is also something necessary today, with all of our health problems.

    On the other hand, all of the evangelicals posting on this blog are actually in cults, the ‘I am saved’ cults. Typical of those cults is an immense hatred for those who aren’t like them: gays, Catholics (especially), Mormons, and SDAs.

    To the SDAs, don’t let the haters get you down and keep doing the good things you do.

    • Martin, please. We know you’re an Adventist. Pretending you’re not to make your SDA buttkissing sound more legitimate is not only dishonest, it’s kind of pathetic.


      You’re not even a very smart liar, either. Why do you think that posing as someone who attended a few of their meetings gives you more insight into the church than those of us who spent many years or even most of our lives within the denomination? Gee, you think Adventists are going to be on anything less than their best behavior while trying to sweet-talk nonbelievers at public evangelistic meetings?!

      Oh, and this sentence is hilarious: “Typical of those cults is an immense hatred for those who aren’t like them: gays, Catholics (especially), Mormons, and SDAs.” Adventists TOTALLY hate gays, Mormons, and especially Catholics! Among many others….

      • I have been reading many of these argument?s and opinion. I would encourage anyone who may read this to consider Christ and his ministry and ask yourself,were they embraced by mainstream Jewish church of that time? Did the leaders likely call Him and his followers a cult and likely try and show how His teachings were false? I think we know what the church thought of Jesus, just look at what they did to Him!! Just because something isn’t popular doesn’t mean it’s wrong.As a matter of fact the majority are the ones that are usually wrong. If you put the writings of E.G.W aside and only look at the teachings of Sda church in light of the holy scriptures, old and new testament and really study things out for yourself you will see that they are teaching bible truth. Dont look to the web to base your opinions about the bible or a church, dont just look to your pastor as the final word. Study for yourself, grab your concordance and study prayerfully, ask the Holy Spirit to teach you truth and when He does except it even if it is not popular!! As a side not I think that it is very sad that even when “Christians ” hear sin called by its rightful name they call it hate speech.It is not hate that motivates a Christian to call sin sin but rather love. What did Jesus say to the woman caught in adultry? Go and sin no more. If I see my brother going the wrong way and do nothing his blood is on my head.

        • Your right about one thing Josh, don’t follow the majority, they are always wrong!

          Its always been the liberals and free thinkers going against the mob who have made all of the progress in the world. The greatest liberal thinkers have all said that the majority are wrong. Jesus was a liberal reformer and revolutionary, bucking the conservative religious system.

          But I will say this again, the SDA church is slowly abandoning the truth, one point at a time. Most SDA critics want us to go back to the Papal influenced protestant churches and their theology which is based on dark ages theology. The church leaders want us to not question them, and look only to the church for truth and wisdom, a bad idea. Truth and wisdom is found in a lot of places. The Bible gives us a few solid rules to measure things by, but we have to think for ourselves. I like what Galileo said, ‘I can’t believe that God gave us a brain and reason and then expects us not too use them.’ So true.

          • I have to laugh. Common sense and critical thinking seem to have never existed in the 7day adventist church. John 14:6 … I am the way, the truth, and the life… Did you see Ellen G whites name listed there someplace? One thing in common with the Mormons, SDA and JWs they all have a false prophet and of course only by following their non biblical teaching will you be saved. It has been known for a long time that the Adventist doctrine of investigative judgement has no biblical support. READ Hebrews 9 again and again. Compare EW teaching to the scriptures she fails again and again.

      • When I sent out for some biblical literature, I wasn’t aware it was SDA. About 2 weeks after receiving it I got a knock on my door and it was two Adventist from the local SDA Church. So my first question to them was why are you here? They gushed, “Oh, did you send for some literature? Well they gave us your name and address. We thought you would like a Bible study”.

        I knew by the rehearsed study it was to get you indoctrinated into their main doctrines. 1. What happens when you die? 2. Sabbath teaching. 3. Man is not immortal 4.Annihilation of the wicked dead. The next visit they brought up dietary restrictions and Ellen White as the “lesser light”.

        You can tell they are trained to stay on track to what they are taught, because I easily threw them off and had them looking at each other when I asked questions of the above stated topics. I have never been to a Church where they literally pounce on you about their doctrines. The study guide ” Search for Certainly” was a clever but obvious courses on Adventist beliefs. So obvious a cult. Anyone who has a background in mainline Christianity can easily know this a cult.

    • I do love this, the I’m saved cults, great description! I was once a Calvinist, an honest outright I’m saved cultist! Then one day while studying the Bible [this is before I became an Adventist,] I found out this was not Biblical and upon investigation, it comes from St. Augustine. Calvin was full of it and an intolerant bigot. Of course I was shunned, oh well, no great loss!

      I would love to see Adventists get back to their progressive and radical roots. Coming from an old New England Unitarian family, I’m familiar with the progressive ideas about religion raging in the Americas back then, but today we seem to be retreating back to conservatism and reactionary religion and politics.

      “Reform is affirmative, conservatism negative; conservatism goes for comfort, reform for truth….Conservatism makes no poetry, breathes no prayer, has no invention; it is all memory. Reform has no gratitude, no prudence, no husbandry. It makes a great difference to your figure and to your thought, whether your foot is advancing or receding. Conservatism never puts the foot forward; in the hour when it does that, it is not establishment, but reform. ”
      ~Ralph Waldo Emerson, The Conservative, Boston, Massachusetts, December 9, 1841

  15. I believe I have made an error in trying reason here on this site. I should have looked to see what it was really about. I was under the impression that seeking bible truth was the goal,but I was mistaken. I hope that someday Christ will soften your hearts.

    • Don’t be quick to judge, I see many who want to follow God and His Word on here, but the nonsense promoted and practiced by SDAism is a turn-off.
      The church was a good idea in it’s beginnings, although I think the business about setting dates for the Advent were insane and so obviously wrong, but it was an advancement in the right direction compared to the establishment churches of the time.

      What is sad are those who throw the baby out with the dirty bath water!

  16. Colossians 2:16

    Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-

    I don’t know if anyone is still reading this post, but just in case…

    • …or in respect to killing someone, using God’s name in vain, stealing, or what have you! More worn out, worthless Evangelical thinking to get around the Sabbath commandment. Come on, think about it. It’s no fun to abandon Sunday worship and veneration to keep the Sabbath, your out of line with most of humanity, but since when were the majority ever right?

  17. What spoke to me most from this article was the social control that is often found in the SDA culture, I recognize that this may not be true for all SDA’s and I am only referencing my life experiences. As third generation Adventist, and one raised in a very conservative SDA home, I struggled as a child with feelings of isolation and immense guilt…. Guilt from the doubts that surfaced from a young age as I witnessed biases against those who were not a part of the church. As an adult I knew that I would not be a part of this religion but was afraid to be honest because I knew that it would cause my mom so much personal anguish and would reflect badly on her in the eyes of her family and church. It was not until my mom passed away that I was able to share with my father my decision to leave the church, I still felt guilt over the fact that he may feel that he had somehow failed as a parent or would believe that he would be judged for my actions. It was isolating to make this decision but it is also freeing, I don’t have the enormous guilt that I carried around for most of my life, I may not be close with Adventist family or friends anymore but I am now living a honest life true to what I believe and striving to make the world a better place through acceptance and love rather than manipulation and exclusion.

  18. Brethren, It is interesting to stumble upon this article. I am an Adventist, I live in a Presbyterian Society, I work in a non-Adventist institution and I will tell you for free, the only true religion is Adventism. True to God, True to Jesus, true to the Biblical teachings.
    1. As to whether we teach the truth, Yes we do.
    Now, people have discredited the bible until God through His divine intervention has guided archeological discoveries to authenticate the Bible. Now if the Bible is the Authentic book of God, those who divert from its teachings are not following God. There are parts of the Bible that you cannot read plainly, you need assistance of a knowledgeable person or guidance from the Holy Spirit. the Books of Daniel and revelation for example. The Bible is not a philosophical book which leads you to blankness, but a living source of life itself.

    2. E.G.White amplified the Bible just as many christian writers have done. In fact books written about the bible, about God, about Jesus, about religion are in the millions, but none come closer to E.G.White writings. Her historically proven explanations of Bible prophesies is exemplary for a third grader. Being inspired does not mean that God wrote the books, it means she wrote through inspiration. She clearly states that if there is an inconsistency in her writings, then refer to the Bible instead.

    3. At the same time E.G.White was writing, another lady called Helena Petrovna Blavatsky also wrote channeled books, leading to formation of another religion which is against Bible teachings. This religion is genesis and the lifeblood, either directly or otherwise, of liberal Christianity. Do not be deceived by your perceived passions or quest for liberty, your life is a battle field through which two deities prove their cause. Each deity has a reward, one will reward you here on earth only, the other deity will reward you both on earth and in heaven. Make your choices carefully.

    4. The urge to live a control free life lead many to hate Adventism. God is not Democratic, he expects his adherents to order their life in accordance with His precepts and especially the Ten commandments.Gods law is immutable. The immutability of Gods law led to the death of His only son Jesus Christ. Who are we then, to impose new rules upon our lives and think that its acceptable. Just because God does not destroy all those who trample upon his commandments does not meant that He approves. The truth shall stand even after we and our opinions are departed.

    5. You do not need to wait until when calamity strikes for you to recognize God. Serve God during your energetic years and He will see you through the challenges of life. Always remember that “choices have consequences”. Serving God has its own challenges, but we cannot serve God under our own terms. We serve God only under His terms.


    • Your thinking is the very thing that makes intelligent people leave SDAism. Your epistle above is a combination of truth and a lot of error attached to obvious truth. You make God into a tyrant to reflect the tyrannical nature of the church leadership. Also, SDAism has departed from truth, throwing out real Biblical teachings in favor of man made rules. God sets us free from such to serve Him freely, and man has no authority, or can interpret the Word for you.

      “..but we cannot serve God under our own terms. We serve God only under His terms.” Yes, under HIS terms, not some man’s who thinks he speaks for God on earth. It was called Popery and never worked.

    • You didn’t stumble on anything….SDA scours the internet to do damage control to their cult. First thing an Adventist told me when they came over for a study was don’t believe what you read online about us. My reply may not be as flowery as yours, but at least I’m not a sucker either.

    • Hola Jorge, just re-read your thoughts, tell me, is this an Adventism truism, ‘a pillar of adventism, a fundamental truth, loyalty to leadership, etc’ ? Or we could go on, but I think the roots of Adventism were good except for the false date setting for the 2nd Advent, and no matter what EGW said, it does not hold water. Time for honest people to re-think some things.

  19. I am a former SDA and grew up in a strict SDA family, particularly in terms of E.G. White’s teachings. All I know, is the day I repented as an adult and asked the Lord if He really wanted me to be like most of the Adventists I grew up with? Not that it was bad, if He wanted me to..I would have… I just remember asking Him to clean my “slate” of EVERYTHING I had ever learned..through the eyes of E.G. White’s interpretation of scripture. I sincerely asked the Lord to show me His Truth..teach me, through His Word ONLY. That was the beginning (1997) of, I personally believe, His leading me to leave the SDA church. Through the years I believe Jesus showed me truth’s through His word that directly contradict the teachings of E.G White…Wearing jewelry (Gen 24:1-67), Wine..actually being wine and NOT grape juice (Gen 9:21, Esther 5:6 and 1:7, John 2:1-11, Matt 11:19, Numbers 6:3,4,20, 1 Timothy 5:23..and so many other verses). Vegetarianism/Veganism (NOT that it’s a bad thing to be healthy)(1 Timothy 4:3,Romans 14:2)AND THE BIGGIE for me was God revealed through His Word that women should not have authority over a man in the church setting (please don’t get me wrong, in His eyes we are all equal and He loves us the same)(1 Timothy 2:11-14, 1 Corinthians 14:34-37)… E.G White is a woman and had ALL the authority when the SDA religion, and all the SDA institutions began. I struggled for many years with the thought of E.G White being a false prophetess. If she was wrong or contradictory to God’s Word even .00001%..then she was a false prophetess. If I can’t believe one tiniest detail of her teaching..I can’t believe her writings. Therefore, if I cannot accept that she is real and true…I cannot call myself SDA, because the whole religion ties in with her teachings. I found myself reverting back to thinking “BUT..maybe i just don’t understand the scripture..because she interprets things differently that maybe i just don’t understand” THEN I had to stand back and say to myself…”wait a second!!! am i actually believing E.G. White’s word OVER God’s word?!!! Then..I started to think maybe it’s Satan giving me all these thoughts? (which is what every SDA that I knew would always say if you question the “rules”)So,THEN..God in His Mercy knew what I was thinking..and showed me (Matt 12:22-37). However, I always would struggle with the Sabbath (as part of the 10 commandments) which is the biggest issue for the SDA’s. I pray that whoever has this issue prayerfully study the book of Acts and then Romans and really study the issues the early Christians had. I could write a book about the things God showed me regarding the Sabbath. Paul would always “Preach in the Synagogues..on the Sabbath” (which is what SDA’s always point out…but, Paul did so because he was trying to convince the Jews of the Gospel and that Jesus is the Messiah…Most of those Sabbath keeping Jews rejected him. After Stephens’ stoning, before Paul was converted, Paul and the Sabbath keeping Jews were dragging the believer’s out of their homes (where they were meeting for worship) and taking them to prison. If the believer’s were meeting on the Sabbath…then how could the Jews be dragging them out and taking them to prison…wouldn’t they have been breaking the Sabbath? Also, Paul was always preaching to the Gentile believer’s as well as the non believing Jews…how could he have done both on the Sabbath, since the Gentile’s were not welcome inside the synagogues?

    • Well, when I read testimonies like yours, it is so typical. It seems that when we react to all of the authoritarian garbage in SDAism we throw out so many obvious truths, the Sabbath, the diet, and others. So many revert back to Sunday worship even. As a former Evangelical and a Calvinist, I converted to Adventism back in 1970 because it was more Biblical then what I had. It still is but the problem is that it has become so corrupted, plus having some serious issues in the beginnings too.
      Most New Agers and people who are in the know about natural and organic living know that the SDA teachings [most, not the medical, drug industry trash,]on health are sound and make sense. It will be a cold day in hell before you can convince me that God wants us to enjoy the slaughter of animals with its unhealthy lifestyle, and rot for eternity. Not to mention the compassion and similar issues.

      As for the Bible, since I go to a Unitarian Church with my girl friend I’ve been challenged to rethink and engage in some perception change on this subject. It’s good to stand back and question why you believe in something. If it’s good and true, it will stand the test!

      But don’t let a desire to be free of something cloud your judgment, I like what Buddha said, ‘We must see things as they are, to see reality, or we will not be happy.’

    • I could agreed with many of the comments here but in short I will comment what I feel. E G White will never be above scripture or it’s interpretation, but let’s look at some of this people who used their own languages to interpret the scriptures as best as they could.Evidently they did use some of their own Ideas to help us understand it but no matter what the bible is it’s own interpreter.
      Why is it that God used prophets to write his words in the book to convey His messages but in their life they were adulterers and murderer like King David, others had many wives and concubines like Solomon, other was disobedient to deliver messages like Moses and Jonah. How is it that God punish Israel for disobeying the Sabbath just because a few individuals gather food on the Sabbath?
      There are things hard to understand but no matter what, in the end God was justify in His dealings with all of us. He is definitely forgiving, merciful, loving, just, good, and rewarding. What else can we ask? The cross answers all questions and we should be glad.
      The 10 Commandments still stands as the word of God. “If you love me, keep my Commandments “

  20. I read the article at the top of the page again, I could reply to so much of this, but I think the writer got most of it right on. I would like to comment to this, concerning cult defined, “…whether the church has a charismatic leader that controls, interrogates and bullies its members….” YES, the leaders, and the so called SDA Pope [we said it in a Federal Court, reality check folks,..] do bully and threaten people, seen this and experienced it up close and personal. The members are only mimicking their leaders. Leadership set up this culture at some past time I’m sure, fostered it with their influence and example. [Like Amish shunning,]

  21. Hi Thomas,
    Just wondering if you believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, and that it is literal and is the final authority. If not..then we would definately disagree on certain issues, since I do believe the Bible as literal and inspired. I believe Acts explains a lot about where and on what day they were worshipping. Also, what was required of them, as far as keeping “the law of Moses”. Do you know which verses I’m talking about? Just wondering what your explaination is on all those verses? Just curious, I like to hear different views

    • OK, you see the Sabbath is not the law of Moses, its part of the eternal Ten Commandments, the inspired statements that reveal the character of the true God and the character His people will bear. Both as a historian and former Evangelical I know better then to give Sunday keeping any credibility. Its a discredited dogma with no higher source then the papacy and Roman paganism. Fact.

      As for vegetarianism it makes sense, and the most reasonable and enlightened thinkers in the world can see that it fits more with the divine plan then meat eating. It also makes more sense from a Biblical view then meat eating. Imagine the world restored but with slaughter and rot. Make sense? No. I don’t have to make much of an argument for this. If you want to live in ignorance and the dark ages, be my guest, its a free country, at least last I could see.

  22. I meant the Gentile believers that is

  23. Hi Thomas,
    I just read your post again regarding a cold day in hell if you believe God agrees with the slaughter of animals and eating meat. There is no verse in he bible that commands us to become vegetarian. Also, in my personal opinion, The Jews in the old testament had to slaughter the sacrificial animals..then they actually bbq’d and ate the meat (my paraphrase). This was commanded by God. God also commanded Moses and following generations, after the flood, to eat meat. Why did God command this? Isn’t it curious to you? Finally, Jesus was slaughtered for our transgression..and He, Jesus, says “unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood” you will not be saved….(spiritually speaking). Also, cain gave the offring of vegtables..but able gave the correct sacrifice of an animal. I feel, because of these verses, for we to say that God would rather us be veggetarian would be to regard the deeper meaning and symbolism of eating meat as meaningless. To me it’s a sin to ever say God wants us to be vegans. I know it’s not a pretty thing, but the sacrifice of Jesus was Not a pretty thing either. If a person wants to be vegan for their own personal healthier..inthe flesh..that’s awesome..but Don’t bring God into it…that’s a my opinion. Also, elen g white said she was “inspired be god”..that we should be veggies…because..meat brings out our “lower animal passions” and we are “more spiritual…have a closer walk with god” when we keep our inner being pure by not eating meat. When you read about why Hindus are veggies….they ALSo say that THEY were inspired by “gods” to be vegetarian so they can be more spiritual with their demonic gods. I don’t know exactly..but there is something to being veggie. There is definately a spirit out there that inspired both e.g. white and hindus…but it wasn’t the Lord Jesus Christ. When I compared the hindus declaration of why they were vegetarian and e.g.white’s inspired view of why we should be vegetarian..1 Timothy 4 AND the bible verse that states vegetarians ae “weak” were so much more understandable. Don’t get me wrong…some people want to be vegetarian for health reasons..or to lose weight..loook good..feel good..etc…but PLZZZZ leave God out of it….

    • Your talking total nonsense now. Hindus worship demon Gods, but when you read the reasons for vegetarianism, it makes sense from a spiritual standpoint. For over a thousand years after the pagan religion of Rome took over the Christian church, ideas like vegetarianism, meditation, and keeping your body in good shape, became heresy and the ideas of being sick, weak, non thinking, or reflective people was the norm. In the east people knew better then this, but in the west ignorance prevailed and we call it the dark ages. Most of our so-called Christianity today is still connected to that form of thinking.
      And thinking that meat eating will make you strong, then you don’t understand health or nutrition much, matter of fact your way behind the times!

      I think that you must be Catholic, you sound like one. Of course most Baptists think the same now. The stories in the Torah were written to teach us lessons, from what to do, to what not to do or follow. God gave Israel a veg diet, but they rebelled. Simple fact. God gave the first people a veg diet, and in the end there will be no death or decay, so how does meat eating fit in?

      As for Hindus, Buddhists, and others, have you considered that in the distant past they had a true form of religion but it became perverted over time,…like Jews, or Christianity!

    • Just too another look at your comments Judy, and will comment again soon, I’ve been away for some time. But I think that your questions are reasonable and need further talk. Your comments are like most evangelicals say today, making out vegetarianism to be heathen and pagan, evil, etc. Ummmmm,

  24. Sabath controversy was cleared by the LORD JESUS himself in that you should not be religious. Immediately after being persecuted in believing that JESUS CHRIST is the TRUTH, I attended the Seventh Adventist in Rimuka,Kadoma Zimbabwe where one of their teachers in the devils voice told me that they the agents of the devil were in the church.
    Sabath worship does not bring you close to GOD but will distance you far.
    Salvation comes by first believing in the SON of GOD and then reading the King James Bible not Saventh day bible nor Ellen G White commentaries. Prayer will help a lot. Ask GOD for guidance and trust in him . You will be saved in no less than a year!

    • You could not prove that from the bible in a thousand years! Sunday keeping is from devil worship, especially from the Roman Pagan military cult of Mithra. Even non-Adventist scholars have acknowledged that for over a century. There is no argument about the Sabbath, its just continued by those who want to uphold the doctrines of the romanish church of the dark ages. the Biblical day of worship is the Sabbath. I see all of the pagan, sunday worshipers like to work this site to drag those who are having their intelligence insulted by the phoney SDA leaders back into the discredited evangelical church cults. Don’t fall for this.

  25. I was raised 4th generation SDA. The families in each generation were increasingly unhappy and dysfunctional. I broke away in the 1970’s. Growing up it didn’t seem to be so bad to be wealthy and a Seventh-day Adventist but to be poor and have your single parent be a church worker was hellish. My Mother worked at an SDA Conference job, kept children in church schools and had insufficient funds left for necessities. I was somewhat bullied because of our poverty. I suffered because of the treatment from some of the children at school. There was a real class system going on and we haven’t even begun talking about their doctrine!

    • I noticed this shortly after joining the SDA church, it was like the Hindu caste system! Once while running some Pathfinders around at a conference event in SoCal,[I was a former Boy Scout leader so I got pressed into Pathfinders, anyway,] I heard this kid crack a joke that I will never forget.

      The conference leaders were supposed to arrive to address the camp-meeting that day. First a large limo arrived and someone asked, who is that? Oh, it’s the General Conference President. he got out and walked up on the platform waving.
      A little later this Cadillac pulled up, who is that someone asked, oh it’s the Union President. He got out and waved and went up on the platform.
      Immediately afterwards a Mercury Marquis pulled up, who might that be? Oh, its the local Conference President. And so he got out and waved and went up on the platform.
      Then this Ford Taurus station wagon pulled up, oh that is one of the local ministers, and so he got out, but just stood to the side of the platform.
      Shortly there after here comes this guy in a short sleeve shirt with a tie riding hard towards the platform on an old bike, to which it was asked, so who then is that? Oh, it’s the Colporteur leader!

      OK, its a stupid joke, and I heard it told in another way about two Adventist roofers working on a house in Loma Linda and these different vehicles went by and his helper, the convert, asked who they were, then the guy on the bike went by, so forth. There is so much truth to this though, so have a good laugh!

  26. I am 3rd generation SDA and I have a brother who is an SDA pastor. All the comments opposing are true. There’s more… Much more…

  27. Having been raised in the SDA church, having gone to SDA schools from kindergarten through university, having married an SDA and spent over 40 years of my life in that church, I must sadly say that everything you have said is only too true. Thank you for this balanced presentation. Thank you for presenting it clearly without making it into an emotional rant. The conclusion said it all: SDAs have extremely low expectations of others. When I was an SDA, I was very aware of this, but didn’t know what to do about it. I am so thankful to no longer be a part of that church.

  28. Wow..I love your post! Thank you for that…I attended elementary, jr high..and 9th grade in an sda school. There was definately a spirit of worthiness if you were financially rich. The me were somehow un worthy. That left me making friends with all the other rebellious unworthy kids..which led me down the path of unrightiousness…which, thanks be to God, led me to Him! I thank God that, through all my experiences, He opened my eyes to the hipocracy of that religion and led me to His body in which I can grow in my faith with people who bear His fruits, instead of the fruit of self riteousness from the doctrines of men..

  29. The issue concerning Seventhday adventism is very simple when people start reading there bible better because seventhday adventism is very deceptive when it come,s to learn the bible . Seventh day adventism learn to read the bible by reading Ellen G white her teachings and books from time to time , But a True Christian learns to read the bible by the indwelling of the holyghost and by asking Jesus help to help Christians to understand the bible , because jesus is the word of God .
    John 1:1 _ The word what was manifested in the flesh of the only begotten of the father full of grace and truth , John 1:14 . Because jesus is the only truth and is the only way to the father , John 14:6
    and only by him we will learn the true meaning what the bible has to say ” Because Jesus is the word of God and he is the only one whom can teach us his words By the indwelling of the holyghost . This is a major problem in the seventh day adventist church because they learn to read the bible by what ellen g white hath written down in her books as far i know , because its heresy and blasphemy because its not biblical , this shows already that Ellen G white is a false teacher and false prophetess , Because the bible is very clear that it is Jesus whom shall wash away our sins and is the lamb whom shall take away the sins of the world but ellen g white says no , she says satan is the scape goat while i know from a Biblical view point that it is jesus while Ellen G white says no its satan , as well about that sunday church goers wil receive the mark of the beast (Antichrist) according the great controvercy . So in otherwords according to Ellen G white i am Part of the Antichrist and belong to satan and i am a Child of satan , Because evry one whom says that the sabbath was only made for the jews is a agent of satan according to Ellen G white , So Yes dear people this lady Ellen G White is a Charlatan a false teacher and false prophetess , For any one whom have,s understanding what the bible says or any one whom is a former seventh day adventist whom compared some of her books with the bible knows indeed that she is and was a charlatan false teacher false prophetess and that seventhday adventism is a Cult . Example she (Ellen) says Jews are no longer the blessed people of God and are no longer the chosen people of God after the cruxifixion of jesus according the great controvercy .
    (Emphasis mine) in otherwords the seventh day adventists are now the chosen people of God because they call themselves
    (Spiritual Israel) But they dont tell it right in your face
    (Seventh day adventist) , Because Jews are part of satan as well this is very clear seen to read according the great Controvercy as well in the
    desire of ages , While the bible says otherwise and speaks diffrently about the jews
    That they are blessed and chosen and that God love,s them . But Ellen says no they are part of satan , Whom do you going to believe dear seventh day adventist ? . What the bible says or what Ellen G White says , Your choice whom you are going to believe what God says in the bible or what Ellen G White has written down ?
    Romans 11:1
    Genesis 12:1:3
    Genesis 18:17:18
    Deuteronomy 7:6:8
    Deuteronomy 7:13:15
    Jeremiah 32:38:41
    Jeremiah 30:17:19
    Jeremiah 31:31:34
    Hebrews 8:9:10. That is my Question to you as a Sincere Christian whom love,s you , because this person whom have created this website is a former seventh day adventist and he can tell you much and much more then i do as many more people whom are working under this website whom are as well former seventh day adventists or Christians whom know about the books of ellen g White whom have done there research and my recommendation and advice to you , if you have any doubts about adventism or are confused about adventism doctrine , these people here will help you as far as possible as they can Because the seventh day adventism doctrine is not Biblical but a Cult . But my self have never been a seventhday adventist i only have read a little bit of 2 books of ellen g white , the great controvercy and the desire of ages ” and it contradicts the bible as well that Ellen G white contradicts her selves

    Dont believe me ? , Do your own research because there are many websites on the internet whom expose Ellen G white her teachings , because she contradicts the bible and contradicted her selves ,
    as well that she claimed to have many visions (Prophecy,s) what never came out ,even she spoke with her death husband (James white) What have,s the bible have to say about this
    Jeremiah 14:14
    Deuteronomy 18:11:12

    So Again whom do you going to believe dear seventh day adventists what the bible says , or what Ellen G white says , Make your choice today whom you will Follow and Repent ? if you read this message whom do you will Follow ! .

    Greetings from the netherlands

    • Well, even with all of the problems with SDAism, the fact that you think sunday is some sacred day, the Sabbath is only for “Jews” and a number of other things you said, it’s obvious that you don’t read the Bible much or just let some church tell you what it means.

      Simple fact, the business about the scape goat, its biblical, read about the sanctuary service and the offerings that were types of the Jesus as High Priest. What you and most evangelicals don’t seem to get is that the scape goat is not a savior, he just gets the blame for all of the sin afterwards in the end. The scape goat is part of the temple service, fact.

      As a former Calvinist and evangelical, all I can say is despite it’s faults, Adventism, at least in it’s more original form, is more biblical the others. Most of the churches are following the Catholic doctrines of the dark ages.

      • Hello thomas Fortin sorry for my late reply , First let me explain one thing i am not hear to debate or to have a dissussion about the truth , Because the truth is only in christ whom is God incarnated he rose from the death on sunday preached on sunday and not only sunday but evryday , because evryday is a holyday sacred day on to the Lord Jesus christ Lords of Lords and King of Kings , 24/7 , I read my bible and also have done it one year long evryday asking God to help me and understand it . Because the first time when i started to read it old testimony i was angry at God when i came to the new testament ,old testament God could be cruel but thanks to jesus God showed his love , because the old testament
        God says that it repented him that he created man in his image But still God loved people so much that he could do what whe dont can comprehend with our own mind , because the reason why God came down in a Human body and humbled himselves is to teach us his love this is what we can find in the new testament
        anyway concerning the scape Goat , and the sabbath , The scape Goat represents Jesus , Why read
        Leviticus 16:10 _ Matthew 4:1:11 _ Luke 4:1:13
        Hebrews 2:14:15 _ Hebrews 9:22:28 _ John 1:29 _ John 3:16
        Because satan can never be part of the atonement of our sins otherwise the cross of Jesus Christ would be insufficient
        So yes its heresy and blashemy what The Seventday adventists believe in only because Ellen G white says so That satan would bare our sins according the great controvercy you must believe in it well sorry its not biblical the proof is in the scriptures what i put above

        Because Ellen G white is according The bible a false prophetess
        false teacher and enemy of the cross of Christ

        Jeremiah 14:14
        Deuteronomy 18:21:22
        2 Peter 2:1
        Phillipians 3:18:19
        2 Peter 1:9 , But he that lacketh these things is blind and cannot see afar off and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins

        And concerning the sabbath it was a forshadow of good things to come , Beware kest any man spoil you because the body is of Christ

        The Evidence is in the Bible , Genesis 2:2 _ Exodus 20:8:11
        Deuteronomy 5:6:15 _ Hebrews 10:1 _ Hebrews 10:12 _
        2 Corinthians 5:21 _ Matthew 12:8 _ Matthew 11:28:30
        John 10:1:18 _ John 10:27:30 _ Collosians 2:8:17
        Ephesians 2:8:22

        Baruch Haba B’shem Adonai (Blessed is he whom comes in the name of the Lord) , Psalm 118:26 _ 1 Timothy 2:5

        Because Seventhday adventist believe only in the sabbath day that that is a holy day and that they must keep the ten commandments to be saved , But Christ abolished the law Because it was only a turtor to bring us on to christ we are not under the old covenant but under a new one and that is christ because the law was our school master but now we are no longer under the law but Christ !!!!!!!!!!!

        Galatians 3:10:13
        Galatians 3:21:25
        Galatians 2:19:21
        Ephesians 2:8:9
        Galatians 5:4 , Christ is become of no effect unto you whosoever of you are Justified by the law

        Anyway most churches dont follow Catholic doctrines any church with a normal sense of mind whom knows the bible very well knows its a false dogma , Evry thing what not lines up with what the bible says is a doctrine of demons including Seventhday adventism so its far far far away from the truth than others whom walk in christ and talk with Christ
        1 Timothy 4:1:2 _ 2 Timothy 4:3:4

        Hope this clears things up for you? because lies and truth mixed together what the seventhday day adventist church teach or any other Church is from the Devil , Because any church whom follows a man or a prophet or Like the pope his teachings are a Cult man made doctrine what Comes from the devil
        2 Timothy 5:13 _ 2 Timothy 5:15 ,
        These are the one,s whom serve not our Lord Jesus Christ while the knew him the changed the image of God in to a lie

        Collossians 2:8
        2 Thessalonians 1:8:9
        1 Timothy 5:13
        2 Timothy 4:3:4
        Romans 16:18
        Romans 1:21:32
        2 Corinthians 11:3:4
        2 Corinthians 11:14:15

        King James Version

        • More papal, dark ages theology I see. You need to go back and study the early church, and as for sunday being some sacred day, any historian knows that the early Christians did not keep sunday sacred, its an invention of the roman papacy, and even they have openly stated it.

      • Thomas, if “despite it’s faults, Adventism, at least in it’s more original form, is more biblical the others”, we have to call NASA!!

        NASA! WE have a MAJOR PROBLEM. The Adventist Church IS TAKING US TO THE DARK AGES! It signed up with UN/IMF/WHO/PAHO to enforce mdgs on developing countries IN EXCHANGE FOR MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!. Mdgs, aka structural adjustment programmes MAIMS, ROBS, KILLS, DESTROYS!!This Church, the Adventist Church, that claims Creation as Fundemental belief #6, will maim, rob, kill, destroy.

        Rwanda genocide:Adventist Church &Catholic Church :6 mil died and Adventist Church received MILLIONS from Western Governments for its role.

        Supported communism in return for an undisclosed sum:110 mill died, millions tortured.

        Supported Hitler and received at least $2 mill just over 60 years ago.
        Secret operation whitecoat:received an undisclosed sum from US gov to sacrifice 2,400 young people to develop biological &chemical weapons of MASS DESTRUCTION.
        Reported 1,300 Hungarians to the Hungarian gov. The 1300 Adventist members were then persecuted.
        In a Ministry Magazine, the Adventist Church equates Karl Marx to Christ:Karl Marx categorically stated he wants to destroy the world;Christ categorically stated that He came to give life, abundant life and more than abundant life!

        “Does bad trees bear good fruit”? “By your fruit you shall be known”.

        NASA, this is an SOS!Please! The Adventist Church is forcing us back into the dark ages with the MILLIONS that will be robbed, maimed, killed, destroyed by enforcing Mdgs!!NASA! Attention, this is no different from the Hitler, Communism, Operation Whitecoat and Hungarian persecution!!NASA, they are saying that “ADVENTISM IS MORE BIBLICAL THAN OTHERS!!


        • @ SAYITOUTLOUD: While growing up, I heard my mother talk about how the “SDA Conference Workers” (those above the SDA pastors) were super rich and had estates/mansions in Thousand Oaks, CA, which is not far from Malibu. I haven’t thought about them on such a grand scale as you have presented here, but from the Rockefeller type culture I did experience, what you say doesn’t surprise me. Some people I have met, like Amy, who posted on this site, tell me that they ”know where every penny goes,” but I don’t believe it, or these SDA conference people wouldn’t be living so close to Hollywood’s stars. Do you have a reference article for us?

          • Paul, thank you for your further insights. Paul, I am an ex Adventist Academic. What I have given here is an eye witness account of what is going on in the Seventh day Adventist Church. There are many references on the web, and the site :
   gives you more references.

            The Adventist church call this structure “paying according to country of passport. While I was working there, two students, who were given scholarships, completed. Both had to work back two years. Both carried passports from the same country. The Samoan born student had an excellent rapport with students and staff and she excelled in her work. The top brass refused to give the Samoan born person with the SAME passport a salary “based on country of passport”. The Samoan was given Hobson’s choice: either you accept the slave wage or there is NO job for you.

            A bit of research amongst staff showed that “PAYING ACCORDING TO COUNTRY OF PASSPORT was merely a front to pay indigenous people slave wages and keep them in poverty.

            Ray Wilkinson, an Australian with a Fijian passport, was paid Australian wages :note:HE DID NOT HAVE AN AUSTRALIAN PASSPORT. A Fijian, who spent most of his life working in Australia, asked why he was not paid MORE THAN Ray. Why, he asked, was Ray receiving an Australian salary?They ducked and dived and Ray Wilkinson got himself an Australian ppassport. The fijian was history…gone…and so was anyone else who questioned the vast differences in salary. You must remember, Paul, on such low salaries, the staff has to pay high school fees for their kids in Adventist Schools. You soon begin to get the picture that people, well qualified people, with years of experience, are kept in perpetual poverty by the Adventist Church- a church that makes bold statements on Global poverty actually makes sure people are kept down there:IN POVERTY!!

            The Phillipino people had their entitlements and salary “adjusted” downwards, while the entitlements of those of Aryan decent experienced an increase in salaries. Phillipinos know if they say anything, they would loose their job.

            It was hard breaking to see how poor people had 10% +10% on their tithing envelopes-it will make anyone throw-up. I witnessed that, in the Adventist Church, faces of indigenous people were used to raise mission offerings. These offerings are used to exercise control and power over the indigenous people.

            Signing up with the UN (pre 2003) and receiving an undisclosed amount in return to “ENFORCE” the millenium development goals is a natural next step for the Adventist Church. With so much control ALREADY over indigenous people, the Adventist Church is well placed.

          • @SAYITOUTLOUD,

            Sorry your country is being ravaged by other countries. God didn’t intend for that…It isn’t right. The government of the USA no longer represents its people; just its 1%, super rich people, and I’m not surprised that some super rich, SDA conference workers took advantage.

        • …Since the UN drafted MDGs (last 15 years), some third world countries have definitely become worse…of course, there are a lot of variables…don’t know…mdg goals may be met by mortality rates, alright…reference, please.

          • Here, Paul is some information on mdgs aka structural adjustment programmes. Believe me when I tell you it robs, it kills, it destroys!!
            Paul, I live in a country where mdgs aka structural adjustment programmes were enforced :It was, to put it mildly, AN UNMITIGATING DISASTER! It was a COLLOSAL FAILURE! The lives of people were rudely interrupted, placed on halt,they lost their farms, they were chased like animals into the cities, unemployment was at its highest, citizens were turned into spectators, poverty increased, child poverty set in, disease increased, child mortality increased Like Ebola, diseases seem to “COME OUT OF NOWHERE” (read WHO MURDERED AFRICA). The whole country, Paul, was put in a test tube. This is sad, AND THIS WAS NOT EVEN A DEVELOPING COUNTRY. ( Read “NZ in a test tube”, Sir Roger Douglas reforms were an unmitigated disaster, 15 year free market experiment an unmitigating disaster).

            Argentina suffered a similar fate. Mayhem, chaos, disaster, poverty, 2,000 % inflation,new president almost as often as you change your underwear, disease, death. Of Argentina, the IMF said :”It is good to kill a country from time to time. (Ref:IMF, GO TO HELL).

            Malawi:the UN/IMF took ALL their seeds as part of structural adjustments. This country ended up with poverty, disaster, famine, disease, death. India : same. After enslaving India, as part of structural adjustments aka mdgs, the World Bank ushered in MONSANTO. Read “seeds of suicide” and search for “monsanto brings death and mayhem). The UN/WHO/IMF/UNICEF have been VERY BUSY IN AFRICA FOR YEARS. In 2011, the UN/IMF/WHO/UNICEF admitted exactly what they have been doing in Africa by issuing this sad, inditement on their website : ” If the whole world goes to sleep for 30 years, Africa would still not have woken up”. (

          • Paul, there are 8 goals, and if you really look at it closely, you will notice how something dreamt up in a Washington office can bring death to countries, some many miles away. It starts really slowly with goal no:1: halving poverty rates, and it ends with a final death blow : open up your country to MORE INTERNATIONAL PARTNERSHIPS.

            As these deathly Mdgs aka structural adjustments are coated in candy and a “play on words”, the message may only hit home once one gets to Goal No:8, which, reinterpreted says :Hand ALL YOUR PUBLIC ASSETS AND THE RESOURCES OF YOUR COUNTRY OVER TO WESTERN &EUROPEAN CORPORATIONS. PERIOD.

            Look at Exxon Mobil for example in PNG around 2.5% IS FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE COUNTRY, indirectly held by MRDC.

            I ask you, Paul, is God deluded?Why on earth did he put resources in a country if he did not want the people of the country to have it? Why is the SDA church getting involved in resources?I thought this Church was about the gospel of Jesus, about giving life. Why on earth would it sign up with USA led UN/IMF/WHO/PAHO/UNICEF? These organizations NEVER claimed to spread the gospel of Jesus!

        • Hi SAYITOUTLOUD,

          Thanks again for the references. Its been a while. BTW, you mentioned that “…Ebola seems to come out of nowhere…”

          At the tail end of the Vietnam War, my oldest brother was a lab technician, and he used to conduct experiments on Ebola and Hemorrhagic Fever at Fort Detrick, Maryland. It was a germ warfare facility back in those days; not a joke. I don’t know if what has happened in Africa recently was mother nature with her bats like they say on the news or not.

        • I totally agree with you, but I stand by what I said too. We are both right in a way here! I think we need to go back and take a look at what Christianity originally was and it was not like what the modern evangelical churches or Catholic church is like for sure. Most sites too that are for former adventists are calling them back into the false, cult like churches.

  30. Thank you for that message Thomas. You’ve got it right on. Most of my family are still SDA, and the closest ones already told me that if I don’t believe e.g.white is the prophetess of God, then I will not be saved! I told them, the Bible says no longer shall anyone teach know the Lord, because the Holy Spirit, Himself, will teach you all Truth..and their response to me is ..”look, if you don’t believe ellen g. white is the inspired prophetess of God, then you will not be saved! You are blasphemous when you talk about her that way!”..Wow.. I choose to believe Jesus and His word..ONLY. In Christ alone am I saved…Then they say..”Lord have mercy on you”

    • Hello Judy sorry for my late reply Your welcome !

      Bless the Lord that he take you out of The SDA CULT

      To see more info Look at my message reply to Thomas Fortin

      Concerning The Bible maby that will help your family whom are still in the SDA CULT , Also your other family members whom are not any longer in the SDA can help your family whom are still in the SDA ` Only what i can say to sincere people whom really love the Lord is to compare the Bible with the Books , The Great controvercy and desire of ages ´ if you read those two books a little bit or you read it from cover to cover and compare that with the bible you can see very clear that Ellen G white was a false teacher and false prophet and even that she contradicted her self , because according the spiritual writtings volume 1,2,3
      of Ellen G white she speaks of Visions what she claimed to have from God , While if you start reading your bible you can she that she was indeed a false prophet , because according to Ellen G white Jerusalem will go up in destruction this is very clear by reading the beginning of the pages of the book the great controvercy , But the Bible says otherwise That the Lord will protect it and saves it from the muslim invasion whom shall follow the Antichrist

      Zechariah 3:8
      Zechariah 2:8
      Zechariah 12:1:11
      Zechariah 14:1:4
      2 Thessalonians 2:2:8
      Revelation 20:10

      Revelation 11:2 , But the court which is with out the temple leave out and measure it not for it is given unto the gentiles
      (Muslims dome of the rock) , and the holy city shall the treat under foot forty and two months

      Revelation 13:4:5 , And they worshipped the dragon (Satan) which gave power unto the beast (Antichrist) , and they worshipped the beast saying who is like unto the beast who is able to make war with him and there was given unto him (Antichrist) , a mouth speaking great things and blashpemies and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months

      We can see That Jesus will deal with this situation according
      Psalm 83 , we read there name,s of Ish’-ma-el-ites (Islamites)of moab
      Edom (Arabian peninsula Saudi arbia) and hagarenes (Egyptions)
      Philistines (Palastinia) Palastine ETC , These are all Muslims nations because they Yell Allah akbar death to Israel
      And what thus it say in Psalm 83:4 , They have said come and let us cut them of from being a nation that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance

      This sounds very similar to the chanting of Muslim Terrorists Allah akbar death to israel

      Because yes the Prophets of the Bible spoke about muslim people !

  31. I’m a university student at a Christian university in Ontario. I met a girl who was a Seventh Day Adventist. We became very close friends, and I was considering starting a relationship with her someday without even realizing what Seventh Day Adventists were really like. After I told her my feelings and asked for a relationship someday, I was heartbroken when she said she preferred to be single all her life, her independence playing an important role.

    In my sorrows, I started reading up on Seventh Day Adventists, wondering what they truly believed… When I started reading how some say that Jesus was Michael the Archangel and that they also believe Ellen G. White’s words to be agreeable with Scripture, I realized how good God was for not getting me too involved with her life. I must admit, it was probably the fact I came from a strong Reformed background that prevented any relationship from growing. She knew about my beliefs and she probably realized that me and her? We’d never work out.

    I just hope she’s not too extreme though… I know she’s a vegetarian and that she worships on Saturdays. But she gets uncomfortable when I mention Christ… At least she loves classical music. Is that a type of music discouraged by the SDAs? If what people (and you) say about Seventh Day Adventists are true, then I fear for her spiritual life… What do I do? We’re still friends, but I can only chat with email as I go on my separate way after graduation…

    • Hi Paul,

      Thank you for your comment. I can’t comment on any spiritual advice, but I can tell you that classical music is not discouraged by the Seventh Day Adventist church. When the church was first starting in the 1800’s, they would not even have a piano/organ in their church services. However, over time this has rapidly changed and most of the extreme conservatives will have music in their services, all instruments that classical music uses. The sort of music the conservative churches don’t like is music that involves drums and guitars. I hope that helps!

    • The best thing you can do paul is praying for her that the Lord may open up her eyes , as well what you can do is confront her with the scriptures and show her the false teachings of the sevnthday adventist church what you know about it ? ” And that it contradicts the biblical teachings , For example one point if you know about this ? . That seventhday adventist must stricktly obey the ten commandments , But what says the bible

      Galatians 3:10:13
      For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse for it is written cursed is evry one that continueth not in all things
      which are written in the book of the law to do them but that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God , it is evident for the just shall live by faith and the law is not of faith but the man that doeth them shall live in them . Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law being made a curse for us for it is written cursed is evry one that hangeth on a tree

      Galatians 3:21:25
      Is the law then againts the promises of God ? God forbid for if there had been a law given which could have given life verily rigtheousness should have been by the law But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin that by the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe . But before faith came we were kept under the law shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed , Wherefore the law was our school master to bring us unto christ that we might be justified by faith ” But after that faith is come we are no longer under a school master

      Galatians 2:19:21
      For I through the law am dead to the law that i might live unto God . I am crucified with Christ nevertheless i live yet not I , But Christ liveth in me and the life which i now live in the flesh
      I live by the faith of the son of God who loved me and gave himself for me . I do not frustrate the grace of God for if Righteousness come by the law then Christ is dead in vain

      Ephesians 2:8:9
      For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves
      it is the gift of God Not of works lest any man should boast .

      But how sad it may sound this is what seventhday adventist dont understand because they Clince unto the law and unto the sabbath in order to be saved ” And its unbiblical

      Because those whom trust upon the law (seventhday adventists)

      The bible says
      Galatians 5:4
      Christ is become of no effect unto you whosoever of you are Justified by the law ye are fallen from Grace

      Because they trust unto the law and clince unto the sabbath
      So They dont understand Grace dear brother Paul , Because the rason why the clince unto the law and unto the sabbath is to avoid the mark of the beast (Antichrist) , What is for them the sunday law that is the mark of the beast for them because that is how Ellen G white have written it down that sunday law is the mark of the beast this ” Thats why they clince unto the law
      (10 Commandments) and unto the sabbath in order to avoid the mark of the beast , What is of course unbiblical as well , for anybody whom reads , Revelation 13 , That is has to do with buying and selling , What have,s this to do with sunday Christian church goers nothing at all , Because we dont find anywere in the bible that sunday worshippers (sunday Church goers) that it is the mark of the beast , Otherwise Jesus and his apostels would be Antichristians as well , Because Jesus rose sunday from the grave and even spoke on sunday , Mark 16 _Matthew 28

      And even paul and the Disciples came together of the firstday of the week to brake bread and paul preached , Acts 20:7

      This shows already That seventhday adventism is false . Hope that you may understand this dear brother paul and help your dear adventist girl friend ? , But i know now already that she will be ignorant as many seventhday adventists are , But at least you may try because if even one person gets out of this cult it can only be done by Jesus himselves if she or him is sincere in heart ?

      Deuteronomy 4:29
      Jeremiah 29:11:13
      Matthew 7:7:8
      Revelation 3:20

      Jesus bless you paul

      Greetings thomas from the netherlands

      • Whose this guy with the same name as me? he is obviously of a Catholic type religious thinking and full of it theologically speaking. As for the 10 commandments, what nonsense is he saying now! the ten commandments are part of the new covenant and which God will write on our hearts, so what are you talking about? this sort of thinking is so easy to refute with the Word.

        • Whose is this guy with the same as me ? . Your asking
          Thomas Ellingwood Fortin ‘ well let m introduce my self

          My full name is Thomas Alexander Vorenholt .

          And I am Not a Catholic Type Religious thinking

          I am Just a Theologically Speaking Quoting Bible machine

          and you say you can Refute me ? , well why is it Than That Seventhday Atventist are so Sneaky with no Understanding

          Of Biblical Theology ,

          I would say i Rather believe Paul and all apostles of Jesus Christ and all prophets of The Bible (Old Testament)

          Rather Than Replacement theology what is as well called

          Because to believe Ellen G White the False teacher False Prophetess is walking the Broadway of Destruction

          I Know What Seventhday Adventist think of Other Churches

          Here it is

          What facts won’t they tell you?

          They won’t tell you that they consider themselves to be the only, true, remnant Church. Their prophetess,
          Ellen G. White, whom they revere and believe without question has told them that

          Satan has taken full possession of the Churches”.
          (Spiritual Gifts V.l,p.189-90) They also believe our prayers are an “abomination” to God. (Spiritual Gifts, V1 p.190).

          That is what they think of you and your church, even if they won’t say it out loud in public, or to your face

          Simple is That so Try to refute me if you seventhday Adventist member , Thomas Ellingwood Fortin

          I am not hating on You i only hate Ellen G White the Heretick because you people have let satan picking on your brains by Brainwashing SDA’s and he have done a Good job by Using Ellen G White The False teacher false Prophetess

    • Hi Paul I have been through all this I dated an Adventist girl, read my comments on this site in various places. Cut your losses with her. I know it sounds harsh. There is something to be said for being equally yoked. 75% of interfaith marriages to Adventists FAIL. The number one cause you ask? Religious differences. You will never get straight answers from her if she doesn’t want to leave the church. You will never find anyone more stubborn than them. They are taught from childhood that they are gods chosen people and everyone else is wrong and Jesus is coming soon but only to save them. You will have to bend to them as they will NEVER accomodate YOU. I tried and gave my ex some information off the truth or fables web site and life assurance ministries (they have a nice chart comparing christianity and adventism) and the web site also. All I got was swore at so you take your chances. My ex as liberal as she is I highly doubt will ever leave the church. This seventh day adventist religion has created some very messed up people emotionally.

  32. Great Judy, then follow the Bible, but you will not find Bible truth with the evangelical, sunday churches. They fell by the way side over three centuries ago. I think in our hurry to get out of SDA, Inc we throw the baby out with the bath water. We run from one cult to another, and the establishment churches are just a real BIG cult.

    • Hi Thomas Fortin,
      I truly believe that I am saved. I no longer have any I did when I was SDA. The moment I chose to follow Christ, when He was leading me out of that church, I felt that supernatural lift of this burden out of my heart that I might not be saved because I’m not good enough. He placed true freedom in my heart that I am saved because I believe that He is the Christ, the Word become flesh..who was born in the flesh and died..and rose again and sits at the right hand of the Father. He Is God and we are saved only through Him. I seriously struggled for years with Christ telling me to leave the SDA church…because of the Sabbath Day. Through those years, however..He showed me what Sabbath is really all about. It’s all about Him! He is our Sabbath rest. This does NOT in any way take away from the 10 fact it makes the 10 Commandments living..breathing Word that abides in me 24 hours a day. I can truly say that I love my brothers and sisters in Christ…including you and all SDAs… everyone who loves and believes in Christ..because we are the body of Christ, and ultimately we are destined to live for eternity, together as a family in Christ, worshiping our God. I believe Satan comes and tries to distract people with “strivings about the law” instead of spreading the gospel of Christ, which Jesus told us to do. I can tell you if there is ever a “Sunday Law” commanded by the pope…and SDAs were being persecuted, I don’t know anyone who would go for that because we know the voice of the True Sheppard and we flee from theives. My brothers and sisters in Christ at my church only have great things to say about SDAs because they have no idea what SDAs think about them..and I would never tell them. They love you all and consider
      Sda’s part of their family in Christ. Our focus should be on spreading the gospel to the ends of the earth..and if “The Sunday Law” ever does happen, then Christ will be faithfull to call His sheep out of every religion..INCLUDING THE SDA RELIGION. However, Biblically speaking, Thomas, I truly implore you to study the book of Acts..line by line, precept upon precept. You will see that it’s obvious that the gentile believers worshipped on The first day of the week and the ONLY reason why Paul “preached every sabbath in the temple”, as SDAs always point out, is because he was trying to CONVINCE the jews of Christ and the gospel, which most of them actually REJECTED Christ. The book of Acts tells us that ultimately Paul told the Jews…(I’m totally paraphrasing) forget you guys…”from now on I’m going to the Gentiles”.

  33. You know, here is a thought for everyone on this site, Jesus told the woman at the well that the day was coming when the true worshipers of God would worship in spirit and in truth. No Jerusalem centers, temples, holy sites, just truth and in our hearts.

    Right now I don’t see any organization holding up any sort of real Bible standard, for now we are on our own, but there is a fellowship invisible of those who do worship in spirit and truth. And some of the things that we have discovered are a bit shocking to main line Christians and especially SDAs.

    • Can’t wait to hear what these shocking discoveries are!

      • I’m sorry Chick, but I’ve been so busy over the past few months I’m just now looking at this site again and it seems that the conversations have heated up. As for the shocking discoveries I mentioned, I’m not sure exactly what I mean’t at the time, I need to engage the brain and think this over, but I know that the truth of the scriptures and history runs totally contrary to the evangelical churches, especially the fundamentalist theocracy cults who venerate sunday! The SDA, Inc is doing its best to conform slowly to the overwhelming movement to restore the dark ages and bring about total mind control. Its scary when you see what is going on behind the scenes. Those who are fleeing SDAism and running into the sunday churches are jumping out of the frying pan into the fire!

    • That’s funny that you bring up that verse in the Bible, because when I kept struggling with Christ about the Sabbath (for8years!) and asking Him..”Why would you ever want me to worship on Sunday if your own commandments tell us that the 7th day is the Sabbath”..He showed me that exact same verse and spoke to my heart…Open Your Eyes! It’s not about what Day you worship…It’s about Who you worship in Spirit and In Truth 🙂 To God (Jesus) be the Glory! Love Him 🙂 and I know you do too

      • Yes, its not important which day, so forth, …but Sunday is the day never the less. Sure, go read some real history, sunday is an institution of the papal church, adopted from the Roman state religion instituted by Constatntine. How I wish most of you would go read some early history of the church, and quit listening to these evangelical catholic thinking christians who do not have a clue.

  34. Christians on probation. What you eat and drink “defiles” you. You must be perfect.
    Satan is your sin bearer. What a joke. Are Adventists lacking in mental acuity

  35. i have 2 grand parents that are part of the seventh day adventest chirtch and they will not have any thing to do with me they will drive a hour to spend time with their other grandchildren and i live 20 minets away from them and they wont come to see me they come once every 5 months and they drive 1 hour every 2 weeks to see there other grand children i am 12 and i had to go to 4 difrent schools one year because the teatchers and the children were bulling me i really needed them in that time of need but no i only have 2 friends and one is my cousen dennes the other is named brook my grand parents and dennes are in the seventh day advenst chirtch and dennes in now smarting off on me saying stuff like “DO YOU GO TO CHIRTCH’ and freaking out every time i say i do stuff like watching harry potter or eating steak and i gust cant take that cult any more I SUSIE SOTO WILL CONFRUNT MY GRANDPARENTS AND MY COUSEN PEROID

    • Hi Susie,

      Thank you for commenting on my website. I do not normally comment on comments here, but your comment touched me. I’m sorry that you are going through such a tough time right now, and I’m glad my website was able to help you. Things will get better in time, I promise.

    • Yes!!! Susie…Thank you so much for sharing! Susie..You are so Awesome and pleeeeze believe that God has opened you eyes! I grew up with the same exact behaviors from my family…and now My kids..Ruthie 16 and Gavin 4 are being treated the same way from my parents who are 7th Day Adventists! I already know who will be attending “Grandparents Day” with my son…and sadly it won’t be his REAL Grandparents….because they don’t approve of my leaving the SDA religion. I promise you though,..God loves you…He loves your soul, and not all Christians are like that. I truly believe that God will lead you to the best church and you WILL have a church family. Don’t give up that hope! might happen when you are an adult and on your own. When you think about it…your church family are your real family in Christ. They are the ones you will spend eternity with! May God bless you Susie…don’t give up and let God lead you according to His word (the Bible). Let that be you map..and nothing else!

    • I’m so sorry this is happening to you, I understand, my kids have rejected me and are keeping me away from my grand kids, its awful and painful, but I have a clear conscience and sleep well at night! God comforts those who follow their enlightened conscience and refuse to compromise what is right.

  36. Please dis-regard and erase my previous comment as there were some mistakes that needed correction. So I am re-writing my comment you will see here: I wasn’t with the SDA but I have been in the Jehovah’s Witnesses and in another cult – we’ll just call it Cult 101. Cult 101 was bad – really bad. I made some terrible mistakes I regretted but sincerely repented and worked hard to make it right and prove my allegiance to the cult. 99% of the cult didn’t believe my sincerity. In fact, when I pointed other people to “Cult 101″ teachings, other cult members told the new prospect “not to listen to me, that I wasn’t a good source”. Now none of the believers of “Cult 101″ are anything to write home about, seriously. And some of them were not intelligent at all. We’re talking “one dimensional” thinking here from their end. “Cult 101″ is just an echo off a once living system like the Shakers for example. Some groups aren’t around anymore but their teachings are. Same thing here. No more religion but history books. None of those who believed as I did were anything to write home about as I stressed earlier. In the “Cult 101″ there was railing, reviling, back stabbing, stalking, harassing and corruption. Mentally speaking, since I made my mistakes and honestly repented, the 99% of the ‘so-called’ adherents would NOT let me live it down. Where I come from, if you have nothing to show for your own life, yet you malign others for their mistakes, I have two words for you – SHUT UP. In fact one of them, the biggest and most narcissistic hypocrite I ever met in my life, wanted me to always degrade myself and always mention to new prospective converts what I did. If not, Mr. Narcissism would tell them and then they wouldn’t talk to me anymore. Even to this day 2 years after I left, I am still called vile names by that narcissist. I could say a mouthful about him but I won’t get into it. Mentally speaking, in Cult 101, I was raped and sodomized by some of the most hypocritical, corrupt and hateful men on the planet. It’s one thing when you are attacked by the outside world against your cultic beliefs. You expect it and usually can defend yourself against it. However, when the attacks come from the very ones in your own circle, that my friends is an entirely different ball game. Now we are in what is known in some circles as an abusive relationship. You see, cults never forget your mistakes. They rarely remember your achievements. They memorize your errors. And they never let you live it down either. Prove it to the cult or their version of God. That’s what some of them believe. So, according to them, you’re no good in the cult and when you left the cult, you were sent by the devil to harass the cult. When you’re IN the cult, you aren’t a true a believer if you made bad mistakes and if you LEAVE because you won’t tolerate their abusive railings, you were never a true believer to begin with. You see, you can’t win with a cult. You’re known as evil there and evil for leaving. It doesn’t matter if you sacrificed thousands of hours and gave up lots. To those hypocrities with scores of convoluted logic, you are lukewarm and “black balled” and that’s that. All you can say is that, in my case, they (99% the adherents) were “nothing to write home about”, that they were the most “demon possessed hypocrites you ever met” and that the “truth” cannot exist here if “this” is what you see. The Bible is explicit: “If a man has an unbridled tongue, his religion is nothing.” My point exactly regarding the ‘so-called’ believers of “Cult 101″. Those of you here who left the SDA movement have my sympathies JW’s had some similarities as some other more benign cult I was in, however they all pale in comparison to the “write offs” of “Cult 101″.

    • Your journey is interesting in the Christian walk. As a student of history I do not think we can close our eyes to documented history of the Christian church and the acceptance of heresies that entered.I believe that the theme of true worship is more important than most believe. Cain and Abel made choices in regard to worship. Evidently not anyway you are I feel comfortable with is acceptable with the God we worship.

  37. Exuse me Thomas Fortin one Little error , There is no 2 Timothy 5
    But 1 Timothy 5:13 _ 1 Timothy 5:15 . Again Sorry for my Little error


    Greetings from the netherlands

    • Oops, sorry! I will immediately flagellate myself before the crucifix {yeah, sure, LOL] Anyway, thanks for pointing this out.
      Its been ages since I looked at this site, a lot of discussion has been going on, that is cool. I’ve been busy with a lot, I work in film and that can get wild and crazy!

  38. I found your website helpful. My husband was raised SDA and I believe he and I have experienced negativity towards us as non-SDA. Makes me very sad to see him treated that way by his family. I also wonder why some posters comments are so rude. I think you can respectfully disagree without name calling or such vile remarks.

    • Rebecca, I empathize with you. While both my husband and I were Adventists, we had the negative treatment because WE WERE DIFFERENT!We were NEW and not BRAINWASHED!We asked MANY QUESTIONS. Both leaders AND members treated us differently BECAUSE OF THAT!

      They tried to convince us that BAD FRUIT come from GOOD TREES, while their OWN BIBLE says that BAD FRUIT CANNOT come from GOOD TREES!!

      Regarding the name calling: I guess as ex-adventist Academics we fully understand this. It is hard to believe that people cannot see, based on the in-your-face mental, psychological and emotional cannibalizing, what the Adventist Church is doing today and HAVE DONE in the past. What I have learnt is that somehow, Adventist members KNOW that things are VERY wrong, but they have largely been turned into spectators and can grumble a bit here and there, but must otherwise SHUT UP of face the wrath of the Adventist Church.

      I enjoy this site as it allows freedom of expression, it allows one to reason. The BIGGEST ENEMY to ADVENTISM is reason, which is quite odd, as the Adventist Church fundemental belief #6 is creation. I ask you, is the God of the Adventist Church DELUDED? Why would He create people with an ability to REASON and then don’t want you to use it?

      The Adventist Church expects BLIND LOYALTY, BLIND ALLEGIANCE, BLIND FAITH. They expect member to GIVE their money, NEVER to question. Volunteer their labour.

      • Incidently, this is the same as Freemasonary and history showns that Adventist pioneers were indeed Freemasons!

        I’m out of Adventism, mate!!

      • It was Galileo who said that he could not believe that God created us with the ability to reason and then expected us to leave off using it! Hanging out with Unitarians, by the way which has caused my kids still in the church to shun me, even keeping my grandchildren away from seeing me, anyway, love the atmosphere of reason, free inquiry, and non judgmental-ism, love the friendships I’ve made there, even some former SDAs.

  39. From 2012-14, I studied in an SDA college, that too Bachelors in theology. It’s a 4 years course. But I left it. I doesn’t follow any mission. Btw my mission is just to follow Jesus alone, no matter what happens.
    I studied their doctrines for two years. The thing I didn’t like was, they’ll quote almost everything from E.G.White’s writings. Many of ’em may not have read the Bible fully, but they know which EGW book says what!!! lol that’s disgusting.
    I’ve seen with my own eyes, Adventists drinking coffee, tea, eating meat and doing whatever is prohibited in their doctrines/Health Laws.
    Many doesn’t even go for sabbath services.(They use to sleep back in hostels).
    They’re the biggest hypocrites.
    & Remnant Church/people???
    Man, not even half of Adventists are following their own doctrines, n you’re telling me that YOU’RE REMNANT???
    You guys better start following JESUS, instead of following others…that would be sufficient to be saved!!!
    May our God OPEN YOUR EYES. God Bless 🙂

    • Know what you mean brother, I worked as an associate pastor in San Diego and was a theology major at Southern, but was kicked out for asking the wrong questions and not bowing down to the high priests of learning. What drove them nuts at Southern was that I would not discuss EGW but gave them nothing but scriptural arguments and that they could not handle, especially since they did not like EGW anyway and they could not cubby hole me into some following, I was too unique for them. I believe in the basic teachings of Adventism but there are certain things that don’t add up, we need to stick close to the scriptures and reason, one bit of advice EGW gave us that is so true!

      • Read the Great Controversy, study the Bible and Sister White as never before. The very things you have experienced are all part of the things prophesied for our time! Your only hope is to know and understand what God has given to us to get us through these days without being deceived. Don’t focus on people or what the church organisation says – you can trust no-one but God and His servant (she was given the gift to make the safe path plain through all of it!) If you want true Adventist doctrine, study sermons by the sites Secrets Unsealed (Stephen Bohr), Amazing Facts (Doug Batchelor), Joe Olson (search for Hope International on YouTube – Joe is a very down to earth preacher). Any questions, email Joe – he’ll be very glad to straighten out any confusion about E G White, for a start. Another site is White Horse Media (Steve Wohlberg) – all excellent Adventist studies of truth and true SDA doctrines. The church has lost its foundation – don’t worry about it. All prophesied – but only you can make sure YOU haven’t!

  40. all said n written True enough,.. Especially the rejection process if youre sort-of commit a petty yet not-easy-to-resist sin. Almost lost all of compromise maybe, its worser when the advent around u that time is a person who never think further beyond conservativeness, or simply to say total-lack of socially psychological approach.. But again these thing have been around even bfore Jesus were born and so on. Clearly, these ‘unique-rejection-process’ had happened also between Jesus and the pharisee, mostly during His active preaching age.. We are well aware that the closer u get to God the more the effort that Satan will take as long as he(satan) can minimize or even better zero-out the possibility of God having more righteous follower. This kinda rejected feeling that we experienced is what i consider among the big potential to Satan getting u out. Bcause we face this alone, we rarely will talk it out especially to fellow advntist, making the evil smile of d other ‘entity of evil’ wider n grinner. We r weak when we walk alone, the same goes to Eve, alone to the forbidden tree. While intelligence is good it is d most used target Satan will inject to make us even more sure of what we thought was d right choice is getting more the rigjt choice indeed, which in d long run,(satans’ most successive approach), will eventually, out-of-any-other-doubletheo-reconfirmation, taint our solid cling to the holy Laws. End, i choose to stay despite the stinking-sound-n-view that came to me mentally. These day are different, dont b afraid to voice out what u got to say to those who deserve it.. If you really wanna walk away then dont leave like a coward without creating a heated situation yet well-supported with fact that can surely silence em or better make them shy, payback? Gudluck.. Ive gone to other religion, but its no better nor worse than current. Well i might let u hav ur own say of yer new religion or doctrine.. Just b aware that history had proved many were deceive n moslead by their own highly respected intelligence though. Amen

    • Hi Dee,

      You made some excellent statements about feelings of rejection and Satan’s tactics at stealing people away. At first, I thought I was just giving in to the dark side, and that I just “wouldn’t be spiritual enough” as the pastor had said. With the help of some smart people at work, I found out the truth. As JUSTSAYITOUTLOUD posted on this site, there is an element of eugenics in the main SDA Church. Those conference workers behind the SDA Church are into some evil just like that poster said. The 3-Angels branch that I got into had a Rockefeller attitude, but that’s another story…

      You mentioned that you’d gone to other religions, but that you’d found them to be “…no better or worse than current.” Sounds like you admit to being on a vessel that may not be going in the right direction or working too good, and that you’ve tried some other vessels that weren’t working too good either, but you are still going to ride in one of them anyway. Well, pretend that you are a government inspector if you are not one already…Let’s say an aircraft inspector. Run some conformity inspections on those religions/churches. Do they conform to God’s word?…or are there some parts that are not quite right?…Parts that may leave you in a real predicament some day when you are cruising through life at 29,000 to 41,000 feet?

      Find one that conforms, please! I think you will be a lot happier. I know, the SDA Church has a very attractive doomsday prophecy going, if that’s the one you are in these days. Find one that conforms, and you may even have better friends…especially if your other friends don’t respect your decision to leave.

      • Like what you said about a pastor saying that ‘your not spiritual enough’ had this same thing said to me before at Mt. Pisgah Academy, but the holier then thou attitude ran rampant there as in most SDA institutions. Right now all of the churches are merely cults with mind control techniques in full play to by pass the rational mind. I’m “hiding out” at a Unitarian church here, the only ones not conforming to the current order of things, and into total think for yourself ideals. They are so much so the Rev Billy Bob [Graham]has now labelled them “a dangerous cult” while Mitt Romney and the Mormons are cool. How crazy is that?

        • Hi Thomas,

          Good for you! Don’t know about Billy Bob. All I can say is that at least Joseph Smith of Mormon fame didn’t steal his ideas (lies) from anybody.

          • ..actually he did, from freemasonary, and possibly from some other weird occult sources, ah nothing new under the sun. Just like EGW, she borrowed a lot.

  41. I met a very friendly 7th DA family who offered me pizza, but I declined having aleady eaten. During the course of the conversation it turned out that we all believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and that is what we talked about. However finally the man brought up that we must worship on Saturday. We parted on friendly terms. After prayng about it, what I realized was that the man actually was serving the Lord in the flesh, obeying the letter of the law, instead of being dependent on the Lord daily for grace to walk in the Spirit, which is the only way to obey the spirit of the law (Rom. 8) This is a very subtle error that leads to spiritual pride, and away from true dependence on the Lord, and away from truly walking with God. Jesus was the unblemished lamb of God, the only sacrifice acceptable to God. Jesus was the perfect Lamb of God, unblemished, unstained. Otherwise we are still dead in our sins. Jesus was in the form of God and came in the form of man. His earthly lineage did not come from Adam. His birth was a miracle. Isa. 7:14.Jesus was tempted like we are yet without sin. Instead of harsh judgment about the letter of the Law, Jesus showed compassion. Love covers a multitude of sin. The legalists insist His followers needed to wash before eating. Jesus pointed out that what comes out of the heart defiles the man, not dirty hands. Jesus showed Peter that he should not call anything unclean that the Lord called clean.

    • That is very right what you said, but the fact remains, if we have entered into the new covenant then we will be brought into conformity, back to the image of Christ and in harmony with the 10 principles of divine love, mostly known to us as the 10 commandments, the only standard of right and wrong. Worship and rest on the 7th day is only an acknowledgment of God as Creator and if that law is now truly written in the heart then we will just naturally live in accordance with it. Those who substitute sunday worship are only bowing down to pagan rome and the anti-christ papacy which is seeking even now to establish its power again with the help of the christian right and theocracy folks.

  42. Rom. chapter 8 teaches us that by walking in the Spirit we fulfill the spirit of the law. To walk in the Spirit is to be dependent on the Lord as a branch is dependent on the vine. Christianity is a relationship with God through Jesus Christ our Lord. It is a relationship, a daily relationship. We go from faith to faith. God is faithful and will never forsake us; we must judge ourselves daily. 1 Jn 1:9; 1 Cor 11:31,32.

  43. Haha, to Sdas, and to start for kate im very sad to hear that youre no longer claim the bible as the truth i pray and hope that God reaches out to you as you have made some of the best points on this subject and really sound like you can be a great agent for God remember pauls joyrney or even jonas for that matter…
    ***hahaha to my opinion on the matter i currently go to a 7th day adventist church on saturday and a nondenominational christian church on sundays..i can rightfully say 7th day adventist is as close to a cult as possible, u may use the words hidden cult, God makes all happen for a reason cause i went there looking for Gods church and from things ive seen recently i know now the reason im at the 7th day adventist church is to prepare me to be able to contradict and expose their lies when that time comes…im at a small church where there are so many gossips behind each others back, also where if a neighbor needs help or fall down a stair next to them on sabbath, its satan trying to prevent them from making sabbath school, when i listen to them the only comparison is the pharisees where jesus had to explain the sabbath was made for man not man for the sabbath, or where paul explains being made free are u now going back to bondage, and yes ellen g. White wrtings are considered as valid if not more so then the bible, where if one of her writings dnt agree with the bible then its cause that bible passage is hard to haha im having fun witnessing craziness at that church yes members have been shun, mind you i went to that church really seeking God, by the way since there are 7th day keeping baptist and christians then will God toss a coin in picking which is his last church…craziest part i went to a baptism where a 7th day member had to say he believe this is the chosen church before baptism…paul explains in acts he was sent to the gentiles, and peter to the jews and sabbath keepers, which group does 7th day belong to? Especially since they no longer believe there are true jews around or that God will recall his people from other lands as the bible promised i guess the pasletinian and arabs vs israel war is made up…to kate church leaders make mistake and true churches are us not a building, those who are filled with Gods love and a desire to search for the truth and become better while being sinners, paul a pillar said what i wish not to do i do it and while the spirit of God works in us he doesnt force us to do right, after we shed our skin for the new spiritual skin then its a different story..haha well if youre part of sda the last church why are u crying for God to fill u with the later day rain or holy spirit after all youve already arrived, youre in his last church…hahaha comical..finally to kate the bible is very have to read it in different views just like there is an old and new testament, compare to bill of rights and constitution..there are different sections of the bible historical, psalms, christ teachings, acts that targets and explain different facts to that one coherent christ, just like us as individuals are multifacet so is the bible but its one person as we are and one truth..misunderstanding happens when we fell to realize the bible was i written by Christ, for Christ and for us our salvation but it was written to ultimately realize Christ is God and we were made so Perfect that he didnt think it below himself to take our form for we were made very good or very perfect..even though we stray, divorced, adultery, sell drugs, even those in churches, we push people away when we make them feel like we are not sinners ourselves, all i would say to a drug dealer is look im not going to mention right and wrong im sure u feel if u doing right or wrong in your gut, all i will tell you is that God loves u and do your best to pray to God in christ name once or twice a day and see if God makes a difference in your life cause in the end its God spirit that changes people not i……kate like you i feel i can be use by God to spread his message and by the way we all should feel this way, pray for me as i want to get to this Goal soon..i guess thats one instance.

  44. Just as an aside re the shunning of leaving, it’s common to many things. I lost all my church friends when I lost my faith and left (a normal evangelical church). Not really through design on their part perhaps, but they disapproved. Even a vegetarian I know who went back to eating meat lost friends and came under massive condemnation from that community.

    • Its a shame and not right for people to reject friends and associates because they don’t believe or practice what you do, and we need to rise above that. I love hanging out with Unitarians, no judgmental people, open, free thought, and support in your individual spiritual quest, and we can sit down, and openly discuss spiritual issues, while working to make the community a better place, as they say, “deeds not creeds” love it! If I like someone, then I like them, agreement on all points of life is not required, just a common love of humanity and doing right for others. Ellen White even said that the real people of God were mostly in other churches, and most SDA would be lost and worship the beast. I would urge all of you on this site to not throw the baby out with the bath water sort of to say, when realizing how repugnant most of SDAism is, but to think carefully about what you know to be true, and not join the sunday cults as an alternative, I’m a former Calvinist and know what they are all about!

  45. By the way, so many thanks to the creators of this site, I think many of us appreciate it as a forum to get all of this out and talk. Even my strict traditionalist SDA son in law monitors it and has condemned me as an apostate for stating my opinions and ideas here. Good, at least he knows where I stand. I’m in total sympathy with most of you who are venting here, and I think God will reward honesty and sincerity in searching for the right path to take. But we have to learn to think for ourselves, reason on our own, and study the scriptures and be convinced in our own minds what is truth, and if that means feeling abandoned and alone at times, so be it. Jesus is with all true believers and you are not actually alone, there are others in the same condition who understand and have taken the same path and experienced the same headaches and heart aches. We form a fellowship in adversity but a common search for meaning and truth, a seeking to come into fellowship with Him who was forsaken by all.

    • Hi Thomas Fortin.
      I came across an interesting 1 hour television program.
      The Bible’s Greatest Secrets Revelation: Visions of Armageddon. episode #8. American Heroes channel. I would be interested to hear your SDA son in laws thoughts on where that leaves the SDA church with its “Gift of prophecy”? It was a very thought provoking show now that there is evidence that the mark of the beast may not be 666 and that the book of revelation may have already happened.

      • Been gone for too long from this site, that sounds interesting, you sound like my son, he is always looking at things like this and asking the questions, but he listened to his old man and thinks for himself, love it!

  46. Adventism is a dangerous cult. It is subtle, deceives as an “angel of light” – tool of Satan. These people are not saved. The best they can do is cry out to Jesus and ask him to show them “His Truth.”
    You cannot “work” your way to heaven by following your little rituals [what you eat, keep the Sabbath, etc.]. It is ONLY what Jesus did on the cross. It is his “work” – not yours. Jesus said, “It is Finished.” Adventists stop thinking you are “special” by your little rituals. It is a lie from Satan. Arrogance and Pride [after all you think you are the remnant ones…more deception]. Get over your Sabbath idol. The True Christian is marked and sealed by the Holy Spirit, not by keeping a Sabbath Day.

  47. Thank you for a website that is not mean spirited. I am not sure that the religious reasoning is correct. However, it does help others like myself. When you find that religion without mutually beneficial uplifting relationships is not enough to sustain you. When your needs are ignored. When every relationship outside of the church requires explaining/calming/and defending your walk. When you return on Sabbath to stares, alienation, and a stick.

    Why aren’t you doing more?

    … Because this was supposed to be a restorative thing, and it’s not.
    … I carry my cross in the world, but the Sabbath was suppose to be a restorative place.

    Shattered Sheep

  48. I would just like to say that I attend an Adventist church. The people are great. I will add that I study the bible daily, reject the investigative judgement teaching, the cleansing of the sanctuary, and the Sunday worship being the mark of the beast. The pastor knows my positions and I am still made to feel welcome. I have come to the conclusion that no church is 100 percent accurate. I also reject EGW as a prophetess. This is just one SDA church in Iowa, I cannot speak on the rest. They know where I stand and am made to feel welcome anyway.

    • Personally I could not attend a church with beliefs that contradict the Bible the way the SDA church does. Sure they will make you feel welcome they have your tithe money!! With the SDA church thats really all it is about. They do not care for your spiritual well being as long as you give them funds to promote their message. Just follow the money folks.

    • Hi Andrew,

      You can go to a main SDA church, pay some tithe for your space on that pew, and never notice the difference between that church and any other church…Most SDA churches use the same sermon book that you can buy at any bible store, so you will eventually hear the same moral stories that you would at any other Protestant church. Just pay no attention to those beliefs at the foundation of the SDA Church, and don’t get between the pastor and his other sources of tithe. My Mother did the same for about 80 years.

    • Doctrine shifts from place to place. Some wear jewelry, and some don’t. Some eat meat, some don’t. Some eat cheese, some don’t. Some drink, some don’t. Some understand investigative judgment, and some don’t. Some follow conspiracy nuts, some do not. Some believe in women ordination, some do not. Some believe in mediation, some don’t. Some hire people to work on Sabbath, and some don’t. Some believe in EGW, some don’t. Some have Halloween, and some don’t. Some have Santa, and some don’t.

      I’ve pounded out some hard questions in the church– none of the above included. Prophecy timeline.. that’s a hard question. Yet, no one could really explain the dates to me. I had to figure it out myself. The basic doctrine is sound.

      It’s the social, political structure that is broken. There are 2 rules in the church. Show up to be counted on Sabbath and pay it’s bills: tithe, offerings, education, etc. Don’t ask where it’s going. Pay for SDA education, but don’t ask to see the SAT scores. Pay for missions, but then have to pay again help missionaries gather enough outside pledges to go do mission work. Never say .. well that just not biblical to a pastor.

      Too many rules, too little backbone, a whole lot of judgment over flies, serving up lots of camels. Weird social shunning; fear of anything not SDA, and lots of small factions.

      If Andrew found a place that is not like this, then wonderful. But beware; it’s a rare place.

      • The fact that unfaithful Christians, in any denomination, dishonour God by preaching one thing but doing the opposite, is not God’s fault, of course. But all these things are prophesied for our day! And that is, just before the time granted by God for everyone to repent and accept Christ as their Saviour, has run out! You can criticise until you’re blue in the face – it means NOTHING. The truth is what you need to learn of, and stay with it. Follow Christ and His truth (the Bible and E G White, His prophet for these days). You will be greatly blessed and your eyes opened. Don’t look to people – they are just sinful human beings who stumble and fall over many things. Trust God! He’s the only One you can.

    • BTW, Andrew,

      Something to consider while you are on that pew: Since Ellen G.White was a literary thief and liar, the SDA Church is false. Since you are sitting on a pew in a false church, could you be swallowed by eternal nothingness? Run! Run for your life!

  49. What an utter load of crap..

    Yes SDA here.. *rolls eyes*

    Webmaster you where 17 and obviously didn’t like having to miss out..

    The fact you create a site like this, shows you have some real issues that you wont build a bridge and move on!

    No church is perfect, yes they have produced some horrifying material, I also was treated badly too, but learned to GROW UP.

    I’m disappointed and hope one day you will come to realize how silly this entire site is.

    To the SDA who is thinking of leaving, your not going to find what your looking for on here..


    • Hi Jono,

      Third Gen SDA (now ex-SDA) here…*rolls eyes”

      Wake up! Ellen G. White stole from The History of Protestantism by Rev. J. A. Wylie and the works of Henry Melvill and Daniel March, and then she said it was from the Holy Spirit…Then she said all who hear her version of the truth are lost if they reject it. Have you stopped to consider that, being in a false church, you may be on a “straight and narrow path” to eternal nothingness? …

      Other churches may not be perfect, but SDA is just plain false. False religions are built on lies.

      SDAs who are thinking of leaving are going to find exactly what they are looking for on this site. Facts! …A reference to the White Lie by Walter T. Rea among others.

      • Nope. You’ve got it ALL wrong. The White Lie is one of the biggest lies! You need to wake up, friend, and learn with humility before you criticise. You know NOTHING. Try studying with true Adventist Christians before opening the mouth – once you can speak about Bible doctrine from FACT and KNOWLEDGE, you might be worth listening to. But as your prejudice is obviously brick-thick, I sincerely doubt it.

        • Hi Moongold,

          I have read the Bible and E.G White’s Great Controversy. You say I know nothing, yet you fail to back up your accusations about Walter Rea with any references. You used no references at all. Am I supposed to be impressed? Do you think that E.G. White saw the destruction of the twin towers? Go ahead, try to back up your claim that Walter Rea’s book, The White Lie, is really just a lie…Perhaps you have proof that Rev. J. A. Wylie never existed. I’m waiting…

          So, God chose a literary thief and liar in 1844 to be last day prophet, is that right? At least Joseph Smith of Mormon fame didn’t steal, but he sure made things up. Let’s see…a few examples of where E.G. White made something up and failed utterly:

          Ellen G. White said in May of 1856 that some of those listening to her would “…live to see the return of Jesus…,” and some others would “…remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus” (Testimonies for the Church, vol 1, pages 131-132). Some may argue as to what state those others would be in who “remain on the earth,” but it cannot be argued that she said some would “…live to see the return of Jesus.”

          E. G. White said that “As the priest, in removing the sins from the sanctuary, confessed them upon the scapegoat, so Christ will place those sins upon Satan…” (The Great Controversy, Pg 422, 485-486). This is very contrary to Christianity’s statement that “…Christ was offered to take away the sins of many” (Hebrews 9:28).

          Mrs. White said that Old Jerusalem would never be built up (Early Writings, page 75). OOPS! Need I remind Adventists that on May 14, 1948, the State of Israel was declared? In 1948, five Arab nations (Syria, Jordan, Palestine, Iraq, and Egypt) attacked, but Israel was steadfast! Old Jerusalem was rebuilt! Rebuilt in both its physical style and its ideals…The only way an “old” city could be built up!
          Since about 17 million people continue to stay with E.G. White, the false prophetess, I am further compelled to bash E.G. White, the literary thief. White copied The Great Controversy from the works of Henry Melvill, Daniel March and Rev. J. A. Wylie. The list of works that she copied runs on. The fact that other writers threatened to sue White need not be mentioned because the world has always been filled with frivolous lawsuits. Pages 76 and 77 of White’s Great Controversy are copied straight from Wylie’s History of Protestantism, and the pages drive the evidence of her thieving in like a hammer on the nails of her coffin.

          One article of amusement is The Truth about the White Lie, first published by the Ellen G. White Estate in 1982. It reminded me a little bit of the Society of Cannabis’ argument for the right to smoke recreational Marijuana. “Eighty-two percent of those who read E.G. White’s books have…[a better, higher]…In short, their religious experience was more positive.” I also enjoyed the Ellen G. White Estate’s use of the term “higher critic.” Do they think that because they recognize that different authors wrote the Books of the New Testament, it makes them higher critics? I would like to know what makes a second-hand Jew think that he or she is a “higher critic.”

          In writing these things, I grab the spirit of Ellen G. White, and I slam her down, deep into the sands of History’s discarded lies.

  50. All these critics of Adventism opbviously know NOTHING of what they speak. It’s never been an issue of ‘the church dictates’ or EG White ‘dictates’ – it’s all what God Himself, Creator of all that exists, commands. Ellen White was chosen by God to be his last day prophet for our time (so easily proven by open Bible study!). Who do the mere finite-brained human beings, whom He created, think they are to criticise or trample underfoot, what the God of all Creation decides? And, as her writings were given to amplify the Bible’s teachings and make them easier to understand, they are ABSOLUTELY in accord with those teachings. Claims of errors or ‘fanaticism’ or ‘irrelevance’ etc, ad infinitum, are SO boring and worn! And such ignorant accusations stem from a total LACK of understanding, or perverted and inaccurate study of either her writings and/or the scriptures. We can all ‘mouth off’ in criticism of what we don’t understand or are ignorant of – and that is certainly the case here. People who mock and deride God’s Word, bring His condemnation on themselves. Until you know what you are talking about, I suggest you zip the lip! Because the only fools here are the ones you’re making of yourselves (you just don’t know it yet.)

    • WOW MOONGOLD you are on another planet.
      TOTALLY BRAINWASHED! Please find ELLEN WHITES name in the bible scriptures and look hard! Of course NO one who has left the SDA church could possibly know or understand anything.

      • Moonglow, I was raised Roman Catholic, but then I was baptized in the SDA church. In my 40’s. I’m leaving now though, after 8 years or so, and seeking a church that focuses on Jesus Christ, and celebrating his resurrection on the day He rose, Sunday. Which is also the day Pentecost occurred. Naturally, considering that Jesus’ resurrection is the cornerstone of the Christian’s faith, I can readily see how it became a holy day of celebration. It makes sense.
        As well, I’ve read Justyn Martyr’s apology, and other early writings of the church fathers, and it seems that this was in fact the practice of the early church, to gather together on Sunday, to celebrate the resurrection of our Lord, to break bread and wash feet and drink wine, in memory of Jesus.

        Not sure you realize, but instructions were given in writing to the disciples by Paul. And one can certainly see, if reading Paul, and understanding what was going on at the time, the new “church of the Living God” was being founded in the midst of Jewish priests losing their job. Certainly they were not going to bread break in the Temple.

        The Sabbath itself must have been a horrendous day for the apostles, Jesus having just been crucified and now buried.
        Sunday, on the other hand, was glorious!

        Jesus IS the “veil”, I know all about the sanctuary. He rose to sit at the right hand of the Father, which I presume would be in the Most Holy Place.

        The Sabbath was instituted by God for his chosen people, it was a day of rest, and freedom from work. One must remember that when the Jews were slaves, in Egypt, they likely had to work 7 days a week, without any rest, and scientists now know that the human body needs one day of rest, for optimum physicality and spirituality.
        Probably, unless you were “rich”, everyone had to work non-stop, to put food in their mouth, to pay their taxes, etc.

        It was the Pharisees who complicated things, with rules for how far you could walk on the Sabbath, what weight you could carry….

        God brought the 12 Tribes of Israel out of Egypt, with a mighty hand, designed to show Pharoah that he was the real God, the Creator God. Notice how the Egyptians used “nature” and worshipped various pagan gods thus associated, God also sent “nature” plagues, to demonstrate that none of the pagan gods could fix the problem.

        If Sabbath represents that God is our Creator, then Sunday represents the day of our REDEMPTION.

        Ellen White was not a prophet, the entire church is founded upon a mistake, when Miller first said the world would end.

        This, to me, does not make sense!

        Then he predicted it a second time, 1844, and again it failed.
        The Bible is very specific, if the thing which the prophet states will pass, does not pass, then God wasn’t behind it.

        The Adventist doctrine is “divisive”, it goes AGAINST all other Christianity churches. God is not the author of confusion, and Jesus instructed the church to be of like mind. SDA’s have said this “like mind” means being close with the Father, just as Jesus was, but I don’t think so.
        The SDA’s may be of one mind within the church, though I hear this is not the case, but they are certainly not of one mind with the rest of the world.
        To predict the second coming of Christ is nothing new, even Paul had to address the Colossians as they believed His coming was at hand.
        Ellen White believed this too, and stated, in no uncertain terms, that everyone else, who failed to believe in the 1844 prophecy (which failed), were looked upon by Jesus with disgust! Their prayers being answered by Satan!

        And yet to attract new members, they preach to give their message in a nicer way, not to bad-mouth other faiths, not to discuss conspiracy theories, etc. And yet this is the foundation of their belief system!
        The US is going to unite with the Sunday-worshippers and Sabbath-keepers will be put to death.

        This does not make sense to me at all, nor does the sanctuary theory. I think it’s silly to think there are real loaves of bread and candles in heaven as Ellen White saw.

        And I understand she believes in “other worlds”, on which there must have existed other life.

        That also does not make sense to me. That God has created a bunch of worlds, all inhabited by “people” who did not eat the apple, and are watching now.

        SDA’s discuss GOD more than Jesus. I read recently where the President stated that “God died for us.” A quarterly study on Jesus, contained more about the Father, and of course included a lesson on the Law.

        The SDA people are wonderful, I have no complaint. But they just don’t know, they’ve lived this way all their lives, and are employed by their institutions, educated in their institutions.

        I agree with Allan, you are totally brainwashed.

  51. 1 Corinthians 10:

    27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience.

    28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience—

    29 I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience?

    30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks?

    31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

    32 Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God,

    33 just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved.

    All of the above is the word of our LORD GOD, and we all agree on that, then, why the sda don’t understand that if you are invited to anyone dinner is the perfect moment to talk about LORD JESUS CHRIST and salvation through faith by grace, but, instead of talking about our LORD JESUS sda are talking about the food that is not permitted, when LORD JESUS said:

    14 And he called the people to him again and said to them, “Hear me, all of you, and understand:
    15 There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, 16 but the things that come out of a person are what defile him.”
    17 And when he had entered the house and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable.
    18 And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him,
    19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
    20 And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him.
    21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,
    22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness.
    23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

    This are the HOLY WORD’S OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, it is so simple, please do not complicate what is not complicated.

    This is the way we all should understand, the BIBLE belongs to is our LORD JESUS, and because is HIS, then HE is the ONE to tech as how to understand the BIBLE, and this are HIS words:

    But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.
    9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
    10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ

    Aren’t we all read the same bible?

    You want to understand the BIBLE? It is very simple— pray and read, pray and read, pray and read, pray and read……… and then you will see the different teaching that the LORD HIMSELF IS GIVING, not someone’s interpretations, and also insignificant, but HIMSELF the LORD JESUS, because HE is the way and the truth!!! AMEN!!!!!

  52. MOONGOLD if you seriously think EG White was chosen by God to be a prophet you obviously haven’t read your own SDA churchs internal documents from the 1919 bible conference. PLEASE READ IT!
    Quote “G.B Thompson: I think we are in this fix because of a wrong education that our people have had. If we had always taught the truth on this question, we would not have any trouble or shock in the denomination now. But the shock is because we have not taught the truth”. Listen up! The SDA church has LIED to their congregations every time they open their doors on saturday for 95 years! The SDA church has known for 95 years that Ellen White was NOT a prophet and her writings were not inspired! So Please DO NOT tell me to zip my lip!

  53. Moongold,
    I have a question for you. You, as well as other SDAs, are so passionate about the Sabbath, because the Word of God commands it. That same Word says that women are to keep silent in the church, and are not to instruct men. Ellen G White is a woman and instructed all the men (pastors) what decisions to make. Why then do you believe E.G. White was chosen by God AND why are you NOT passionate about what the bible says about women? The bible NEVER instructed that women should teach men and prophesy in the Church…IN THE LAST DAYS. Nor does the bible speak of any such “Chosen Woman” in the last days to prophesy. Satan deceived Eve, the woman, in the beginning. Adam was NOT deceived, but willingly CHOSE to take the forbidden fruit in order to stay with her. Just as God willingly CHOSE to become flesh, and sin, and die on the cross, in order to stay with His bride…the Church…US! I believe it’s the same situation in the “last days”. E.G. White, the woman, and all her followers (SDA church) are deceived. Martin Luther, the man, was not deceived. I believe, he was the one truly inspired by God, as well as the founders of other Christ believing churches…Sunday or Saturday keepers.
    PLEASE KNOW THAT I AM NOT TRYING TO BELITTLE OR OFFEND WOMEN! I am a woman, and am not offended..

    • Just to add to Judys comments above in regards to E.G. White and all her followers being deceived. Here is a direct quote from her in testimonies for the church page 230 about her own work. “This work is of God,or it is not. God does nothing in partnership with satan. My work for the past thirty years bears the stamp of god or the enemy. There is no halfway work in the matter. The testimonies are the Spirit of God or the devil.” Ellen, by her own admission has no clue if her work is inspired by God. Secondly if any part of her work contradicts the Bible(which is Gods word) her all or nothing approach means all her work is of the devil.
      Yes she is nothing more than a lunatic.

      • Hi Judy, Allan,

        This is my favorite site, but sometimes I wish it had some “thumbs up” features.

      • if your aim is to defend, you can find mistkakes on and on.
        but i tell you. truth will be revealed on Christ’s coming.

  54. Redeem,
    So you made a climatic statement with out the climax. ” I put down my great controversy and asked God to teach me His truth. I fully expected to find adventism to be “the” truth, but it’s not. He came to save us. Read the good news brother.” As Pilot once asked “what is truth”. You suggest that you found it so what is it “The Truth”?

    You see everyone believes something. Why hide it? If not SDAs then who or what? What church denomination has The Truth or knows truth or teaches The Truth.

    I was almost anticipating you to say it is the “_________” Church. But it was nowhere to be found. The author seems not to be able to identify it either so you are not alone. Several on this board who are critical of SDA or influenced by this article are even fearlful to state their source of truth and affirmed religion. In John 17:17, Christ stated in his prayer request, “…Sanctify them through Thy Truth: Thy Word is Truth…”

    I am SDA, but do I find the nuances of religious politics held or implied by some Adventist to be in conflict with scripture? Of course but only in a purely humanistic and individual applied way. I for one do not find it to be a threat to my faith but only to their individual witness for Jesus Christ. The Jews and other Sabatarians have the Sabbath truth correct. It is the only God instituted and sanctified day of worship. We do not have a 6 day week. Only God has instituted the 7th day. And yes, I believe His grace sanctifies also those who have not yet been convinced of this truth. No differently than the relationshion of a believing spouse sanctifies the unbelieving spouse. ref1 Corinthians 7: 14. God forgives a multitude of sins and who am I to complain what and who He chooses to forgive. It does not prevent me from responding to the truth of his word in obedience. It is my joy to worship and serve such a God on the day he is pleased to bless. It only assures me that where I fall short there remains forgiveness to me as well as to those who require forgiveness in other areas.

    Now again I cannot be found endorsing any other denomination above what I know personally because it would be unnatural to do so and disingenuous. I do know that whatever church you are a part of that you must not only follow that church you must certainly only follow Jesus Christ.
    The denomination is secondary to the word of God and as long as it allows for you to follow your conscience and inspiration from God you should continue in it. If not it may prove injurious to your Spiritual walk and life. It may also hinder true conversion.

    Now this does not mean that we should not continue to study to determine if our application of scripture is scriptural and correct. A prayerful study will lead many to move as the spirit leads them into the will of God and to worship God accordingly. My conscience is not my only guide though. Christ example and his word point out error to me and errors of following the world and personal feelings or my own understanding. This is the burden and conflict all Christians must encounter.

    Shunning is a human condition. legalism and license are human responses to our human condition. Were it not for God’s love and grace we would and will all be lost. Our great challenge is that it is not as simple as us choosing extremes or the middle. God’s Devine Spirit must work in us and thru us as we are willing to submit. Our obedience to the Spirit of God must be based on love and appreciation of the character of Jesus Christ. We all struggle with this.
    History tells us that unfortunately even the perfect church ceases to be perfect once we join it. True Christianity is often found in those who defy dogmas and trends within there own denomination without agenda but under the unction of the Holy Spirit and inspiration of the word of God. Luther, Jerome, Tyndale and others were at odds and cast as reformer, zealots and heretical as they followed joyfully the path Christ lead them in.

    Today we ought to be so earnest to reflect God and his attributes. To serve and obey His word and His leading in their lives leading others to a higher awareness of God’s purposes. This must always be in love and always in a spirit of humility to such a degree that we can and will suffer some criticism, abuse and perhaps are cast out but we need not deny any truth just because our denominational affiliations do not embrace it. That is the point where many will and do leave and join other faiths that allow them room to continue to grow and so is the progression but to cast truth behind in favor of comfort some are forced to seek haven from our own failures or inability to endure another’s harsh criticism and so they abandon all truth which will never give us peace.

    Service to God should never be subject to the ridicule of men and for those who struggle in their service they will find reference to an enumerable company who have found grace and deliverance from God as promised in Revelations. While still others desire to be among the 144,000. I don’t have to do the math to know that God is able to save me and keep me when and where I cannot. I do not abandon truth or become indifferent to God’s word save to claim Jesus Saves. I must follow Christ because he calls me to love him more saying. “If you love me keep my commandments.”

    So I have found Truth in the word of God I have found fellowship in Seventh Day Advent-ism and I have found solace and purpose, I have also received love and shared faith and gotten Godly council within the Body of Christ among all believers and denomination who love and serve Jesus Christ.
    To be sure I have also known rebuke and non-acceptance at times from all as well but I do not fear any of it I embrace it. So don’t give up.

    • Hi Bum,

      You say that “The Jews and other Sabatarians have the Sabbath truth correct. It is the only God instituted and sanctified day of worship.”

      Only in consideration of the Old Testament and Hebrew nationalism is this a correct statement…for Jews. For the truth, you have to consider everything in Western Civilization from Day One, and consider all languages. Now consider the Lord’s Day in the New Testament…Not just the “Lord’s Day” as spelled out in the King James Bible, but all languages. Peter and John the Revelator used the term “kyriake,” a Latin derivative of the Greek first day of the week, which, in Peter and John’s time, made reference to the day of Christ’s resurrection. The Apostle Paul, a part-time tent maker, traveled on Saturdays, and preached on Sundays. Christians already kept the first day of the week, Sunday, before Constantine’s Pagan Upgrade circa 321 AD.

      The truth is stranger than science fiction, it hurts, and it doesn’t care about Buddhism, Hinduism, evolution theory, creation theory, or any of the three great religions in Western Civilization. Why? Because its the truth. Yes, the truth is out there.

      The truth…There are certain truths in this world:

      -Man created religions, not God.
      -As the saying goes, Babylon is the “Mother of All Religions.”
      -Neron Quesar’s Hebrew spelling (N-R-W-N + Q-S-R) adds up to 666 in a variety of Gematria approaches. Nero’s reign of cruelty and irresponsibility led to: 1) John the Revelator’s exile to the island of Patmos; 2) widespread revolts; and 3) the Great Fire of Rome.
      -Derivatives of the name, Mama, used around the world, are tied to one place–Ancient Sumer.
      -The name, Jesus, is the Greek name for “New Zeus.”
      -The whole country of Egypt started out as a cult.
      -The 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in an hour have a deeper meaning than Sumerians counting to 12 on one hand and multiplying those 12s with five fingers on the other hand. Sixty was the number rank of the Sumerians’ “Chief Among the Annunaki.” (reference the Sumerian K Tablets, Livingstone, A. Mystical and Mythological Explanatory Works of Assyrian and Babylonian Scholars. 1986. ISBN 978-1-57506-133-7).

      Jews are Jews. Sabatarians are “Second-Hand Jews!”

      Jews and Christians who keep the Sabbath while wearing watches on their wrists are the laughing stalk of World History.

      BTW, we have thousands of references to Ellen White’s literary thieving and lying. So, Bum, you might want to rethink that sitting on a SDA Church pew thing. You clicked on this site, so it must be in the back of your mind. The SDA Church is false when compared to any other church that tries to only keep to the Bible. It doesn’t conform to itself. So, consider that you may be on a “straight and narrow path” to eternal nothingness in there. Run! Run for your life!

  55. Bum,
    The Bible also says that whoever confesses that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and believes in Him has the Holy Spirit. All protestant religions that I know confess this. My Lutheran congregation truly believes in Jesus coming in the flesh and we do not think we are the ONLY correct Christian religion. The Bible does NOT say only those who worship on the 7th day will be saved, but those who believe in Jesus as the Christ, the only way to salvation, our Redeemer, will be saved.
    There are so many discrepancies with E.G.White’s word and the Bible. The foundation of the whole SDA religion is based on the doctrine of Mrs. White and if she was deceived, then her inspiration came from the evil one. How can I even call myself SDA if this religions’ FOUNDATION is built upon an evil and false inspiration that overcame an innocent young lady.
    BTW, I grew up an SDA with very strict SDA parents and family. I read all of E.G.White’s books and attended every “End of the World”, “Mark of the Beast” camp meeting, “7 Trumpets” home and school auditorium meeting, watched every Doug Bachelor and “why rock music and its’ beat is satanic” video. ALL of which took my mind OFF of Jesus and ON my own behavior, attitude and thinking. …AND.. Isn’t that EXACTLY what the devil wants people to do? Take your eyes, heart and mind off Jesus and the Truth of HIS word ONLY, and preoccupy yourself with yourself. It’s so subtle but it’s so about the SDA religion all wrapped up in a bundle package.
    I only thank God that He opened my eyes to His truth only, because I sincerely sought Him with all my heart, and He, the Holy Spirit taught me His word and took that veil off my eyes…the veil that is covering every SDA members’ spiritual eyes. Praise be to God only! He can do the same for all who seek Him!

  56. Hello Everyone who posts on this site,
    Please do not think I take sides or am upset with some people. I truly believe that we are all on this site in the first place because we are all in the same boat. We are all seeking a closer, deeper and true relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! That’s one thing we all have in common. So I post this prayer for all of us, including ALL people on this Earth who believe that Jesus is the Christ, our Messiah, who came in the flesh and died on the cross to save us. Only through Him are we saved!

    Dear Heavenly Father,
    May your name be praised! You are the Creator, Lord Jesus, of this world and universe…and us. Holy is your name only and your will oh Lord is the ONLY way to Salvation!
    I pray for everyone on this site, who seeks your truth, Moongold, Bum, Paul, Allan, Thomas and everyone who posts on this site. You know our hearts Oh Lord, and our intentions, our motivations. I pray that you open the eyes to our hearts, our very souls. Let us see Your truth plainly. Let us be united in You oh Lord and remember that we our Your body. Let us feel your presence living in our hearts and allow Your living presence to live through our lives “in the flesh” to reach others in our daily lives to everyone we come in contact with.
    We are your body, we are brothers and sister in you oh Lord. Have mercy on us, and let us remember that You are the head of Your bride, your Church, Your body, …Us.
    Let Your will be done, oh Lord in our hearts, our this World and keep us from the evil one. The evil one seeks to separate and destroy and let us not forget that You seek to unite us in everlasting love. Your Kingdom is everlasting and please help us to remember that We and all Your beloved ones will live together in Your kingdom forever and ever.
    In Jesus Name I pray,

    • Thanks for the prayers, Judy!

      Last time I checked the Lutheran congregation conforms to what the Bible says. It doesn’t have an EG White saying that they are the ONLY ones, that Jerusalem will never be rebuilt, etc., etc., and it doesn’t have a Joseph Smith at its foundation, making the outrageous claims that Vikings lived in Arizona! Yes, a church that conforms. To those of you who would rather not take a chance on being in a false church, there is an example of a church to run to. But please run from the SDA Church! Run for your lives!

      It is accepted in the Intellectual Arena that the Hebrew Book of Genesis is the ancient, Babylonian Atrahasis (“Extra Wise”) with the female roles removed. I know, it’s not popular to think of the Hebrew captivity in Babylon and Hebrew nationalism. Either way, God is God, and it must be considered that He may not give two cents about those sitting in a church that was started by literary thieves and liars…even if they do think that they are the “very elect.”

      • …not popular to think about some sort of “men’s liberation movement” during the time of Moses either. That’s just me…

    • Thanks so much for the prayers Judy.

  57. I read just about every post and was left scratching my head.
    I am not going to say that the SDA church preaches nothing but falsehood, because that is not accurate of any church. E.G. Whites diet guidance is uncanny. She also expressed the importance of owning your own home and staying out of debt. The Mormons (LDS) have health conscious warnings regarding tobacco, tea, coffee and soft drinks. Disinformation will exist, but we should be learning how to distinguish between it, truth and half-truths. And just in case you are wondering; No, I am not an Adventist or a Mormon.

    The Old Testament (Torah) and the New Testament were two separate books in two different languages. The Old Testament (Torah) is written in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek. Both books were combined to make one which we call today the Holy Bible. There are currently well over 1,800 “bibles” in existence today with many changes/alternations. As it was in King David’s time, we also have scribes who alter our Fathers WORD. Moving on here..

    The Ten Commandments is something that Jesus consistently upheld. In His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus very pointedly stated: “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill” (Matthew 5:17).

    Although some mistakenly think that “fulfill” in this passage means to complete and therefore abolish, what Jesus said afterwards shows this could not be the case. Once again, the Sabbath was not abolished with the death of Jesus on the cross. Continuing, Jesus said:
    “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (verses 18-19).

    While many claim Jesus had removed our Fathers eternal law (the Ten Commandments) and it is no longer of any importance, I believe you should check and recheck scripture.

    Jesus makes another critical point. He does not ask anyone to worship him; he wants us to worship the Creator of heaven and earth.
    Jesus said in Matthew 19:17; “keep the Commandments.” (A young man wants to know WHICH ONES and Jesus points him to the Decalogue)
    Matthew 19:18-19 He said unto him….. Which? Jesus said, Thou shall do no murder, Thou shall not commit adultery, Thou shall not steal, Thou shall not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself.
    Matthew 15.19,20 Another time Jesus said; “For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, Thou shall not covet, Thou shall not murder, thou shall not commit adultery, thou shall not steal, thou shall not bear false witness, thou shall not take the name of the Creators Name in vain; These are the things which defile a man.
    Matthew 22.37,38

    Jesus said unto him, Thou shall love the Creator/the Father with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

    Jesus wants all to love and worship the Creator and he also says that we cannot have access to the Creator unless we go through him first. That being said, there is the Sabbath subject.

    Gen.26:5. “Because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” So Abraham kept the Sabbath! Did Adam? I believe so. Even the Israelites when they left Egypt under Moses had to relearn the Sabbath. Our Father in heaven asked, how long they (the Israelites/Hebrews) would continue to break His Sabbath in the wilderness.

    Anyone believing that Jesus abolished the Sabbath is on the same ground as the caviling Pharisees. Jesus declared, “I have kept my Fathers Commandments and abide in His love.” John 15:10.

    Neither Jesus nor the disciples broke the Sabbath; Jesus was a living representative of the law of the Sabbath. No violation of its holy precepts was found in his life. Jesus it is written was obedient until his death, both to the letter and to the spirit of the Creator/our Fathers law. John 8:46

    Jesus said; “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.” Luke 4:16

    The true original Sabbath has never been abolished or cancelled, changed by man, yes. The real question everyone should be concerned with is what changes were made? The modern calendar began in 46/45 BC, when Julius Caesar, in consultation with the astronomer Sosigenes of Alexandria, developed the Julian calendar of 365.25 days. The big innovation was to separate the week from the lunar cycle and to make it a continuous cycle. It used an eight-day market week. Certain types of events were allowed on certain days. By the time of the First Century AD, the seven-day week named after “gods” and “goddesses” of the solar-system was being used in Rome, and was starting to replace the eight-day week.So Saturn’s day was the first day of the week. However, the Jews and Christians were not using that calendar until the time of Constantine. While it is generally known that Constantine enforced a “Sunday Law”, in AD 321, a big assumption is that he just replaced one day with the day next to it. Was there more to it? Yes, he changed the entire calendar.

    In AD 321, Constantine created a big compromise. He blended the Hebrew idea of a seven day week with the Julian concept of a continuous weekly cycle, and added the veneration of the “Sun God” from Mithraism to create the Roman calendar used today. He enforced his calendar upon the entire Roman Empire with military power.

    Constantine and the Council of Nicaea in AD 325 replaced Passover with Easter. On the surface, that may not seem to be much of a change. But it’s not just a matter of replacing one day with another. It’s a completely different system of calendation, since Passover is not computed using a Julian calendar. Because of these changes which were being enforced by persecutions across the Roman Empire, the Jewish Sanhedrin met for the last time around AD 350, and modified the calendar to the form used by most Jews today, in which the Sabbath is on Saturday, but the other Feast Days use a form of Lunar calendar.

    Later in history, Pope Gregory modified Constantine’s calendar slightly in 1582. (This was to fix a problem caused by the fact that the year is not exactly 365.25 days long, but 11 minutes shorter.) Like Constantine, the motivating factor was the date of Easter. So the calendation system used today is Roman (Pagan and Papal), and the question of when the Sabbath occurs is very important to anyone who desires to follow the Bible.

    • Hello Clem
      You say that you believe Abraham kept the sabbath and Adam. I take issue with that.
      Firstly I want to know what biblical scripture you base the assumption that Abraham kept the sabbath? There simply is NO biblical scripture that says that Abraham kept the sabbath anywhere in the bible.

      To put it simply Abraham lived 430 years prior to Moses and of God giving the ten commandments to the Israelites. The sabbath command is one of them. How could Abraham keep a commandment he had no knowlege of???
      You simply cannot apply a commandment backwards in time.

      So what does the Bible Gods word say about this?
      All specific commands God gave to Abraham he obeyed and they are listed in Genesis.
      Now you need to look to ST Paul he deals with this subject in Galatians chapter 3. Read all of it!
      Galatans 3:8 specifically tells us what God told Abraham. That is the GOSPEL. Simply BELIEVE.

      Sabbath observance has nothing to do with the salvation afforded by Christ.
      And yes Clem you should recheck the scriptures.

  58. Hi Clem,
    You have a lot of historical background. The thing is that The Bible says that all scripture is inspired by God. Also we are to worship Jesus. He is God, the Word in the flesh. By the Word of God, ALL creation came into existence, He is the Creator. By The Word of God, the dead are raised to life. The Ten Commandments are also the word of God. The Word of God is so important to understand, because it is that very Word that came to us in the Flesh….Jesus. Jesus is God, whom we worship. The Shepherds bowed down and worshiped Him. This is what the Bible tells us, when Jesus was born. In Him, all the fullness of the Godhead existed. This is what the Bible tells us.

    As far as the bible being translated so many times… Is it safe, according to you then not to trust in what the bible says? Does one have to be a historian and have knowledge of what each translation says in order to be saved? The bible says, earthly knowledge is foolishness to God and also not to argue about laws and genealogies because it takes our mind off Christ.

    The Word of God (the bible) is Living and has the power to change our hearts and increase our knowledge of Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit. This is how God tells us to study and learn His word, under the inspiration of the Holy learn more of Christ, the gospel and have a closer relationship with Him. If we use the bible to gain earthly knowledge and compare it to history..then it just becomes another book on the shelf and we are no longer inspired by the power of the Holy Spirit, because our motivations are not to know Christ more, but to prove a point or fit it into our own belief system and body of historical knowledge.

    I do also believe that Saturday is the original Sabbath, however, Jesus said He has “other” sheep that belong to His fold, outside of the Jewish religion…the Gentiles. If you sincerely study the book of Acts, prayerfully, you will see that the “Churches”, whom Paul preached to, met on the First Day of the week. Paul also states in the book of Acts that the converted Gentiles were not bound to keep the law of Moses, like the Jews. Paul said that if the Gentiles believed in Jesus as the Christ, did not drink blood, and kept themselves from sexual immorality, they would be doing pretty good! This made the Jews mad and jealous.

    I’m not saying that the ten commandments should be disregarded. The closer walk you have with Christ, the more you realize it’s impossible to keep the Law. Our hearts are wretched! We break every commandment in our hearts on a daily basis, and that will always be the case until Christ comes again. But Christ tells us that when we believe in Him, we don’t have to feel condemned because we are not guilty. When we are in Christ, we ARE made perfect because Christ places His robe of righteousness on us. It’s NOT we being good and obedient, It’s Christ’s robe of righteousness that makes us pure in the eyes of God the Father. This does NOT give us an excuse to sin. The closer walk we have with Christ the more we want to please Him…but we can’t because we continue to sin everyday of our lives. Thanks be to God, however, He tells us not to feel guilty or condemned. This is why God came to die for us, because we cannot keep His Law. Christ ONLY wants us to focus on Him and NOT on our own behavior and failings. We still try and WANT to please God in our actions, because we love Him. If there is a person who WANTS to sin without caring what God thinks, I would question if they truly love God.

  59. Hi Clem,

    I appreciate your Bible references to the Sabbath, but I don’t see anything about the “Lord’s Day.” Have you considered that early Christians (John the Revelator, Apostle Paul) had no intension of being second-hand Jews when they wrote about the Lord’s Day? Actually, they didn’t even say Lord’s Day. That is the King James version. They used the Latin derivative of the Greek “first day of the week” in their original texts. The Apostle Paul was a tent maker later on in life who traveled on Sabbath and preached on Sunday.

  60. The church you are describing is not the church that I know. I grew up in the SDA Church, my dad was a pastor, and I have a degree in theology from an Adventist college. I am an evangelical progressive Adventist, but I have worshiped and fellowshipped in congregations large and small across the nation–both “conservative” and “liberal”–and I have not seen any SDA church (or even any individual member) that looked (or sounded, or believed) like the negative stereotype as you describe them. As you yourself mentioned at the top of the article, “I would also like to note that this article does not apply to all SDA churches. . . . Please keep in mind everyone’s experience will be different.” Fortunately, I haven’t yet found any that it applies to. It’s also good to know that nobody is saved by any denomination; members of any denomination (or no denomination) are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ our Lord.

    • Really Amy??? What pile of sand is your head buried in???
      Trust me I dated an Adventist girl and know at least 3 others that go to this local church. They are amongst the most arrogant, judgemental, hypocritical people I know.

      I have seen these adventists claim they are christian first adventist second what a pile of crap.

      If these SDA were truly christian they would never attend a SDA church knowing the doctrine that is taught there.

      That being SDA are Gods chosen people and that the SDA church is Gods one and only true church.
      Which completely contradicts the biblical teaching that there is only ONE church. Christs church! comprised of ALL believers.

      Maybe Amy you would like to explain why the SDA church is not a member of the world council of churches and Never intends to be be??

    • Amy, I grew up in the SDA Church too, and I never heard anything about an “Evangelical..[anything]..Adventist.” You have definitely been on different branches than we have, but if they are SDA branches, Ellen GOULD White’s literary thieving and lies are still at the roots. That being said, are you sure that you are saved? I’m urging you to run! Run for your life!

  61. You may also be interested in this interview with an evangelical Adventist pastor: . He was invited to explain Adventist beliefs on a website that interviews people of various faiths. His views are a better reflection of what Adventists actually believe.

  62. We have proven that the SDA Church is false. If you want a recap on EG White’s literary thieving and lying, we can re-list them. For SDA web surfers who have clicked on this site, the question remains: What interest does God have in those who would be in a false church?…The “straight and narrow path” to eternal nothingness. Run! Run for your very lives!

  63. Hi Amy Thomas,
    I also grew up SDA with strict SDA parents, aunts, uncles, cousins..etc. I have been to many different SDA churches as well, liberal, conservative, and have experienced different opinions regarding the doctrine. The thing is that you cannot deny the fact that the doctrine of E.G.White believes that Sunday worship is the “mark of the beast”, the “Investigative Judgement” presents the lives of christian believers as being investigated whether they are found “worthy” to obtain salvation, and The “cleansing of the Temple” presented as Jesus NOT actually going to the Most Holy Place until 1844. There are many other small beliefs as well.
    These three ideas of E.G.White are completely against biblical teaching! (as well as many others) I’m convinced that ONLY the Holy Spirit can reveal this and open the eyes of our hearts to reveal His Word to us! Don’t you see this Amy? The Bible says anyone who believes that Jesus is the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us is of God. There are many protestant religions (Sunday worshipers) who base their religion on THIS doctrine. Jesus is the Word who became flesh. This is what sermons are based upon…Jesus and His gospel!…not the pope, mark of the beast, following Sabbath rules, living a healthy lifestyle, spreading the doctrine of SDA (their gospel) to the world…the Gospel of health living, and how to make it to heaven by keeping the Sabbath!
    On the second point, the Investigative Judgement, if I am found unworthy of Salvation as a christian while I live my last days on earth…because of my sinful life, then I am exempt of the gift of the cross and there is no hope for me. What happens after I am found unworthy and the Angels and Jesus move on to the next christian as they are doing their “investigative judgement”? I have no more hope right? I am destined to hell. The blood of Christ does not cover me? Does the bible teach this Amy?
    On the last point of the cleansing of the temple, The book of Hebrews clearly states that Jesus presented His blood to the Father in the most holy place when He rose again…not in 1844. The Bible teaches that The Veil was torn when Jesus died on the cross! Therefore, there was NO MORE SEPARATION between the holy and most holy…there was NO MORE SEPARATION BETWEEN US AND GOD! Isn’t that great news!!! We were immediately able to come to the Father, through Jesus Christ, after Christ’s death and resurrection…not 1844. However, E.G.White’s doctrine implies that there was still a separation between the holy and most holy because Jesus “passed from the holy to the most holy in 1844”. Therefore, there was still a separation between the Father and us??? The bible does NOT teach this. Please ask the Holy Spirit to open your eyes Amy. He will, I promise you.
    When Christ revealed His word, The Truth, to me, I could no longer say that I am an SDA. How can I be part of a religion that is founded on a doctrine that is false?!? There is no way! The whole religion is founded upon a false rock. Truth is where the Gospel of Christ is preached. His word only, In Christ alone! Thanks be to God!

  64. Here is my two cents. I have a appreciation for the SDA. It lies in their strict adhearance to living a life pleasing to God. Many other denominations fall short of this, especially the so called ‘seamer friendly’ church’s. If you look at their list of 28 fundamentals of the church almost all of it is in common with most of Christendom. Good for them! I don’t like calling them a cult as fellow Christians that they are. Where there is division there is Pride. I writers on both sides pointing fingers and those who have should look in the mirror. Shame on you. I will say that all denominations have issues of each owns teachings but most agree on the heart of Christianity which is what is most important. the SDA also has a solid foundation for the heart of Christianity as well. I celebrate all that is good with them but I will also point out where I feel they are off base.
    1) The investigative judgements hogwash
    2) Ellen White and all of her teachings are irrelevant. Yes she said that scripture has final authority but they need to move on dial 1-800-get-over it. This is similar to the mormans and their john smith and the golden tablets…… Please
    3) The whole prophecy thing hogwash
    4) Worshipping on Saturday I have no issue with but they should not point fingers at other Christians for worshipping on Sunday at least we are all worshipping the same God!

    The SDA in my opinion could be a man stream church with millions of more members if it would just make some minor adjustments and don’t hold themselves out to be The Remnant embracing all believers, agreeing to disagree on some points but uniting on what’s important where there is common ground. I myself at this time choose not to attend the SDA due to these points that separate themselves and which have made them in some ways an outcast when they don’t need to be. Where there is smoke there is fire. I don’t want to be a part of a church that is either finger pointing or being pointed at. To be a church that embraces all other Christian denominations is where I want to be and the attitude and spirit I want to be a part of. God bless the SDA I think they are so close to being right on the make but again they need to make some changes. It’s worth noting that several members and clergy within he SDA have tried and still want to make some of the changes I am speaking about but their is not enough support at this time to do so. Good luck and God bless all. And to those on both sides of the fence. Get of your high horses let go of your pride and open your hearts and love your fellow Christians! I think hat would be what Jesus would do and did do.

  65. I cannot believe what I’m reading on this site. You all argue about the fine details of a religion, one of many hundreds of religions. How can a supposedly technically advanced nation (i.e. the USA) hold such beliefs? All concerned with an imaginary man in the sky and a fairy tale book.

  66. Hi Thorpe,

    Bill Lear brought the work on the first Learjet over here from Switzerland specifically for the Protestant Work Ethic. I wouldn’t equate a belief in that “…Man in the sky” with technical ineptitude because those who do tend to work harder whether they are in the Science/Engineering fields or not. What we are doing here is rising above a false religion, burying it in the sands..of..History’s.. discarded..lies, and becoming more technically advanced.

  67. Hi,
    I love the Sabbath and keep Saturday Sabbath. My church has no problem with that. Many members of my church actually keep the Sabbath on Sat, but go to church on Sunday. We believe Sabbath is about communing with Christ. Turn off the TV, Cell phones, facebook, etc… and grow your relationship with Christ, without having anything else to do or anywhere else to go. I just wish the SDA church would renounce their belief that E.G White is The Prophetess and her doctrine was inspired by God, and just think of her as just an ordinary nutritionist who had whacked prophetic beliefs that are not from God. If they held on to the word of God only, without E.G. White and worshipped on Saturdays, I think we would see a revival. People would come back by the boat loads…including me

    • I agree that many SDA churches preach Ellen g. Whites word more then the bible, but you cant renounce something that you believe just because people don’t like it. Ellen g. White herself said that she didn’t want to be worshiped, she just wanted to share the word. I think a lot of churches have started to worship her rather than the God himself, but that doesn’t mean that The SDA church is a cult. People need to stop looking at those churches that preach her, and start looking and the religion itself.

  68. P.S. Mr. Thorpe,
    A little leaven leavens the whole bunch. Do you think Jesus is imaginary? When this nation was founded upon the belief in Christ, did it not grow into the strongest nation? We are getting weaker because of people who DON’T believe in Christ anymore, rather believe in themselves and technology. We are a weaker nation because we are straying from truth, do you not see that?

  69. One of the things that I love about the SDA religion is that we are given a choice. God gives us the freedom to choose what we believe. We are not told to believe the thing that we do, but are asked. Many of the things stated in this article are true.We have certain beliefs that go along with our religion, but we do not condemn people for having different views. God never asked us to cast judgment on others or force them to see things the way we see them. He told us to love our neighbors and to treat them the way we would want to be treated. Being a young person in the church is difficult considering all the conservative views and close minded people. Many of the church leaders have gone to the extreme. Preaching Ellen G. Whites word, rather than Gods or claiming you have to be vegan (When really the “health message” is not a requirement, but is taught for health purposes not as a law). In any religion you are in there are going to be people constantly looking down on you or making sure that you are doing exactly what they think you should be doing, but thats not how it should be. God doesn’t care is you’re vegan or if you attend church every Sabbath (and never miss is even if you’re sick). He just wants you to know him and to love him. He wants you to trust him and have a relationship with him. Thats all he wants, for you to love him and know him.

  70. Ellen G. White copied The Great Controversy, and its artwork, from Reverend Wylie’s History of Protestantism, among other sources, and said she received it all from the Holy Spirit. Pages 76 & 77 of The Great Controversy are ‘great’ examples of this.

    White said that “…Old Jerusalem would never be built up.” (Early Writings, p. 75) In 1948, the State of Israel was reborn.

    White said that some present at the 1856 Conference “…will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.”
    (Testimonies Vol. 1, pages 131-132) Don’t try to twist this one in your mind to also mean a ‘resurrection’…ah…ah…No mind twists! In some circles, this one is just known as “False Teaching Number 134.”

    I pray that those who come to this site will think about an important question: By being in the SDA Church, might you be on a “straight and narrow path” to eternal nothingness? It is Biblical that false prophets will take multitudes with them to Hell.

    • BTW, to copy Wylie’s book and then say that it came from the Holy Spirit was a lie; however, changing the artist’s initials on the artwork on Page 77 of the Great Controversy was a felony.

  71. I am a SDA in two minds about leaving the church. My pastor is an amazing man of God yet I disagree with him on some of his teachings; namely;

    How the SDA sees Heaven/Hell… (With hell not being eternal and some people will burn longer than others for their sins). Surely all sins are the same in God’s Eyes?

    Another point I picked up on was that there is a verse in the New Testament saying that God Almighty will bless ANYTHING you EAT as long as you ask Him too. (SDA forbidding pork, calamari, prawns etc is BC and since God created these things and renewed us in Jesus Christ surely He can make these foods clean? Jesus said He did not come to change the laws of The Father in the New Testament but to FULFILL these things.

    I too struggled with how to conduct my Sabbath Day to please God, but came to realise (in the New Testament) that SABBATH DAY is actually “TODAY”. God obviously knew there would be controversy regarding this, so instead of focusing on a specific “day”, but to make it about Jesus in our everyday lives.

    All churches have flaws, if they filled the whole cup people would flock there and not give the proper Glory and Honour to God. The Bible itself talks of hippo-crates so we cannot condemn anyone.

    Praise be to JESUS and God bless everyone on this forum xxx

    • You must not have children, I love my kids, but if one tried to set fire to the house and the other stole a cookie, their punishment would not be the same. Now would they? No they wouldn’t.

      Most folks who leave the SDA Church usually do it for selfish reasons, they no longer want to dress modestly, if they every did, they no longer want to avoid this or that because everyone else is doing it.

      I can’t go out Friday because the Sabbath and the first time or first inkling that we don’t have to do it any more is like a burden lifted. Really all that means to me is this person never accepted the message at all.

      Never was converted and do not have a true relationship with God. All they have is the Judgment waiting for them.

      I don’t get it, its the time to get right and make sure your relationship with God. folks are running out of the SDA church and its sad, but Good because they were not going to make it anyway. Its sad so many are leaving but the right ones will be coming in.

      I don’t agree with everything that SDA Church does especially now with the Apostasy growing rampant in the Church. but I study those things out with my own bible. I want to insure that I am saved and those I love and care for are saved. thats really all a Christian can do.

      Nothing in this article makes the SDA Church an Occult. It would be better to study what an occult actual do to its remembers instead of trying to find excuses.

    • Hi Crystal,

      As an SDA Christian, I’ve had plenty of discussions on eating unclean foods, namely pork, with other Christian Denominations. What I challenge all Christians to do is to study the subject in it’s entirety. Let’s take ALL of the verses from the Bible on a particular subject before we draw a conclusion, instead of making a doctrine out of a single verse. What you will find out that you cannot understand the new testament, unless you understand the old testament first. If you try to study the new testament without learning the old first, you will get distorted views. Let’s allow the Bible to tell us what God says on this subject.

      The first point that I’d like to make to you is that man AND animals were all created as vegetarians (See Genesis 1: 29-30). Meat eating did not exist at the time of creation and if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. In order to eat meat, you’d have to kill an animal, right? Well, it may be hard to imagine but according to the Bible, lions and sharks were vegetarians too. I can’t picture it but I accept Gods word that he created man and animals as vegetarians. Either we go with God’s word or we don’t.

      Point two: most of the christian world teaches that at the time of the flood, the animals entered the ark two by two, which was true for the unclean animals. However Genesis 7:2 teaches us that the clean animals went in seven by seven and the unclean animals went in two by two. Now at this time, meat eating didn’t exist …but even if it did, God’s intent here is obvious: unclean animals were never intended to be eaten. The unclean animals boarded the ark two by two …male and female. Well, what would’ve happened if Noah or any of his family members ate the male or the female pig? …or any of the unclean animals in general? Well, the answer is simple: that species would’ve ceased to exist since it wouldn’t not have been able to reproduce.

      After the flood, Noah took one of every clean animal and sacrificed it to God (See Gen 8.20). Notice, no unclean animals were offered as a sacrifice. Think about this for a second …no where in the Bible will you find that the Lord accepted an unclean animal as a sacrifice.

      According to Gen 9:3, man was allowed to eat meat after the flood. Here God says that I have given you everything that liveth to be meat for you. At first glance, people who support eating unclean foods would be quick to point out this text as evidence that it’s okay to eat unclean foods. However, this is where we need to be patient and read the rest of the Bible to see the whole picture.

      The argument in itself that unclean animals were never meant to be eaten after the flood is self-sustaining, given the fact that eating one of those animals would’ve killed off the species. However Leviticus 11:46-47 says, “(v46) This is the LAW of the beasts and of the fowl and of every living creature that creepeth upon the earth: (v47) to make a difference between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.”

      The verses prior to 46 and 47 of Leviticus 11 reveals what God has deemed clean and unclean in a most simple way. …and then he repeats, reiterates it in Deuteronomy 14. He refers to eating unclean foods as an abomination. What exactly is an abomination? Let’s pause here for a minute to look this up.
      Here are some of the definitions I found online:
      1) Anything greatly disliked or abhorred.
      2) Extreme repugnance.
      3) Intense aversion or loathing.
      4) A vile, shameful, detestable action, condition, habit.

      God calls the eating an unclean animals an abomination …something he pretty much hates and is disgusted with. Why does the Christian world take this lightly? Look at those definitions of the word …anything greatly disliked, abhorred, extreme repugnance, a vile, shameful, detestable action …can it be any more clearer how God feels about the eating of unclean animals?

      Let’s look up other acts that God considers abominations. It will put the act of eating unclean foods in it’s proper perspective:

      Deteuronomy 18:9-12 …”when thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.” For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord”.

      I don’t believe that any Christian in their right minds would even question whether or not God greatly abhors, loathes, detests the act of somebody visiting fortune tellers, tarot card readers, witches and wizards, necromancy (people claiming to be able to talk with the dead) and I don’t believe that any Christian in their right mind would believe that any of those people would be allowed in heaven. The Bible clearly says that God intensely hates these acts! Now let’s ask ourselves the same question about this abomination that we asked about the last abomination: If God felt this way about these acts back then, why would this ever change? Will it change? We will let the Bible answer that question a little later but for now, let’s take a look at a couple of other acts that the Lord referred to as an abomination.

      In Leviticus 20:13, 15-16, the penalty for committing adultery, homosexuality and bestiality: death. All three of these acts of sin receive the same consequence, period. In verses 13, 15-16, God refers to the act of homosexuality and bestiality as an “abomination”.

      Now I’m not here to judge anybody but pointing out what the Bible says is all I’m doing here. God loves the sinner but hates the sin. God sees the eating of unclean foods on the same plain with bestiality, homosexuality and spiritualism.

      I like to save the best for last. Isaiah 66:15-17 describes the day of the Lord’s coming. It says his coming with fire …to render his rebuke with flames of fire. No question here this is judgment day. Verse 17 says that those who eat the swine’s flesh, the abomination and the mouse shall be consumed together, saith the Lord. Now let’s ponder on this for a second. At the very least, from the time Isaiah wrote this verse until the end of time, how can we draw any other conclusion that he points out that eating any of the unclean foods will result in taking a dive in the Lake of Fire?

      Revelations 21:7-8 puts the icing on the cake. …”But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the ABOMINABLE and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

      Notice here that the sorcerer is going to partake in the Lake of Fire, right along with those who do abominable practices.

      The Bible is Explicitly clear on this subject. The Old Testament tells AND the New Testament (Isaiah and Revelations) tells us that this is something people are going to burn in the Lake of Fire for. How then is it that people take other verses from the New Testament to mean that somehow, God didn’t mean what he wrote here in Isaiah and Revelations? These verses in Isaiah and Revelations are too powerful …to clear and concise to even slightly misconstrue that eating unclean foods will not lead you to that Hot Lake that nobody wants to be a part of. I hope this challenges you to re-read those verses in the New Testament that people interpret as to meaning that we can eat whatever we want and God will be cool with it. I don’t have time to go through each and every verse that people misconstrue but you are more than welcome to email me at and we can use the Bible to point out the truth.

      It’s just confusing to me that the Bible clearly teaches that eating unclean foods is a sin …something people will end up in the Lake of Fire for. Then the New Testament comes along and changes this …and then Revelations the VERY LAST BOOK IN THE BIBLE gives us a clear reminder that people are going to burn in the Lake of Fire for it. The scriptures people use to supporting the eating unclean foods have been taken way out of context and need study more carefully, as it does not add up to what the rest of the Bible explicitly teaches …and warns us of where it will lead our souls to.

  72. Hi Joss,
    First, I want to say, I always love visitng this blog. I miss all the great input and people who take the time to write their views!
    Joss, you expressed how other SDA’s or SDA Pastors’ might be judgemental because we don’t follow EG White’s teaching. This is true, but I struggled with the fact that “my religion” SDA Is founded upon EG. White’s teaching. It’s the Pastors’ job, as an SDA, to proclaim her teaching and “interweave” her doctrine in the Word of God. If her doctrine is false, then that house (THE SDA TELIGION) is built on sinking sand

  73. SDAs are paranoid people who believe ‘sunday keepers will pursue them and kill them someday.

    • I read almost all of this article, what nonsense, if you leave you leave, I have not been to service in a year. A year, no one has contacted me. I go to service as often or not as often as I pleased. And the food, yeah I would say something if I saw some one eating pork and they professed to be an SDA and have counted the cost, its a lie to be eating unclean food and saying your a Christian. you committed to living a healthy lifestyle. Yes, I would avoid you if you continue to live a lifestyle unbecoming of a Christian and it says so in the word. but mostly because I do not want to compromise my own salvation. I keep hearing this stuff about people in the SDA church and its hard to believe, maybe because I am made of harder stuff, I wish someone would dare to try and control my life, I would look at them like they lost their mind, but then I study so it would be harder to fool me.

      SDA are not an occult and they do not harass people, you got evil folks in the church as well as out. They target certain people and those people should stand up for themselves or move on. I am also going to say this, this behavior is found an any church, though they are not concern about the health ministry but they are concern about church positions and who has what control in their churches. its every where, there needs to be more then this to make it an occult. I was in an a occult and they are nothing like it.


  75. Crystal, “God sees all sins as equal” and that “all sins deserve the death penalty” and that “the thought is as good as the act” (Jesus said thinking murder is as bad as doing murder) are insidious and dangerous ideas.

    A parent who would tell a child they deserve to die for taking a cookie without asking, or breaking another kids toy, would be considered abusive. To say that telling a lie, such as that dress looks beautiful on you when the speaker doesn’t thing so, is as bad as someone doing mass murder is illogical and immoral. It is healthy for a person who has thoughts and impulses not to act on them. Having the thought isn’t the crime.

    While I have received some benefits from religion, including Adventism, there is much damage and danger.

    In the beginning man created God in his own Image, and we’ve suffered ever since…

  76. Thank you for an amazing and helpful website.

    Spot on with the analysis, stories and ideas.

    I resonate with so much.

  77. In reply to the ones who poo poo the belief that one can have a relationship with Holy God and not do what He commands is not having faith but only having presumption. Jesus says “hereby ye do know that ye know Me if ye do whatsoever I command of you.” The Sabbath day, not Sunday He commands to be kept holy. He wrote it in the middle of the 2 stone tablets with His very own finger showing it’s permancy that should then be transferred to the table of a Christians heart. Romans 3:31 says “do we then make void the law through faith so that grace may abound (continue)? God forbid! We establish the law.” Earl

  78. I don’t doubt the truth that they Adventist church holds I would never go anywhere else. My issue is how the elders councils and church boards have turned into kangaroo courts to push the selfish agendas of wealthy individuals. Even pastors are very scared of these people and support decisions that are clearly unbiblical.I know of many people who have lost their faith and left the church due to church makes me too sad.

  79. Just here to say the original article/blog is/was SPOT ON with my own experiences with the church. To sin is to be excluded and forever shunned from the inner world of SDAism. Anyone considering leaving needs a strong social network outside the church. Being forced out is like being cast to the dogs. There is NO return once they’ve decided you belong to the World.

    • ..are you sure you really sinned, or just violated some SDA talmudic rule? During one of my classes on the church manual [yes, ministerial students take a whole class on this,]I just came out one day in class and called it the Adventist Talmud. The teacher stood there in front with his mouth hanging open, thought I saw a fly buzz in there,…LOL

  80. I was raised in the sda cult went to san Gabriel academy. Horrific baised by saten.they said I woul be a hoiker beacause I m a working model and tv and film actress. Left at seventeen had to seek counseling from abuse from my mother.chopping off my hair to make me ugly.calls me ugly to this sister cathy took her life from severe depression.there is no amount of truth and authenticity from ttheir crazy mafe up childhood was robbed fill with lies and abuse.white memorial church was where we attend then temple city sda. My life is amazing now. Cutt off my cult sda family. Amen

    • Victoria, as I said to Christian up above, “..are you sure you really sinned, or just violated some SDA talmudic rule? During one of my classes on the church manual [yes, ministerial students take a whole class on this,]I just came out one day in class and called it the Adventist Talmud. The teacher stood there in front with his mouth hanging open, thought I saw a fly buzz in there,…LOL” While producing the HOPE Channel program YOUR LIFE & HEALTH both in Orlando and at the Simi Valley Studio, I ran into a lot of creative SDA kids like yourself. Most of them hung out at the Hollywood SDA Church where the pastor was arts and film friendly, great guy he seemed like when I met him once. But the local conference finally got rid of him. Don’t be discouraged from a career in film and TV, we need good people, nice people with a conscience, not religious robots. I attend a Unitarian Church which by the way is part of the original roots of Adventism in its early form. Love it. By the way, for any of you who work in film or TV, please feel free to contact me and I will connect with you on Facebook, I don’t mind sharing my email and Facebook which has that name, New Albion Pictures.

  81. If Satan wanted to divide and conquer the realm of Christianity, he’s done a great job.
    Create multiple churches claiming to be the one and only true church. Hate all other beliefs.
    Respect for others beliefs is gone.
    SDA is a Ponzi scheme. Check out how grand the leaders indulge.
    Los Angeles Times newspaper did an expose on the subject matter.
    Donate or die spiritually.
    They make themselves the jury, judge and executioners of your afterlife.

    • Right on Joe, they are a pathetic lot of religious psychopaths.

  82. Personally I just want to worship the Lord Most High on the day it says to in the 10 commandments. But re the issue…Mithraism (and its pagan sun worship) is strewn throughout Catholic doctrine. 15 minutes of google research will show anyone that it was #1 An easy way to sell Christianity to the multitudes and #2 An opportunity for the Catholics/Pope/Constantine to exercise their self-proclaimed God given authority to change the day from Saturday to Sunday because they wanted to be “different in all ways from the vile Jews”. Its anti-Semitism pure and simple. The Catholics just got a 12 century or so jump on the protestants so everybody just went along with it. Plus for more than a thousand years they had been telling everyone that not only is the Pope a demi-god, but also their particular ruler (whoever he happened to be at the time) was a demi-god. Yup half man, half god, and 100% totally non-biblical. Not often brought up in Christian circles…how many Pope’s visited Hitler during the holocaust? Answer: 2 How many times did they visit? Answer: 3 times. 2 popes, 3 times. Where the pope basically said “yup, i like what you’re doing here”. Wake up people. Understand the evil of the world you live in. MOST leaders are “of the world”, and consequently “of the creature”. To go against the flow makes you a counter-culture and therefore almost always constantly fighting. I have little exposure to the SDA’s but if any of this cult stuff is true, and it appears a lot of it is, they likely just let the anger and hate of being a counter-culture infest their church and made them turn on each other. They don’t necessarily need to be torn down, they probably just need love and a hug. We all need to remember step #1 and #2. Step 1: love God above all, with mind, spirit, and soul and 2: Love your neighbor as you love yourself (this includes your enemies, all cultures, all countries, all shapes, and all types of people including SDA’s).

    On a lighter note thank you for your insights. I’m off to find a messianic synagogue to worship at. Also please love and pray for Israel. Gen 12:3 Israel…I will bless those that bless you and I will curse those that curse you.

    • OK, right on in many ways, although sorry, I don’t buy into the Zionist doctrines on Israel, but that is another matter. The early Christians were not at all like the Christianity we see today, they did not even like crosses, it was Constantine who made it the official symbol, plus the model of the Roman state church and its operations is what our churches and services are based on. Its all a system to keep you in line, impress your emotions, and awe you while by passing the rational mind. There is a good book out on Pagan Christianity that is a must read. Its call back to the original roots and worship the early church, here you go,

  83. Every person on this earth will be judged according to his or her faith and for leading others down the right path or the wrong one. It is true that there are people who are blind and crush those who may have chosen to eat a different way, but not every seventh-day Adventist! Those that socially shun anyone is not at all in Christ and are as ignorant as the jews in the past who only felt that they were saved because they had the truth, they were born in the church, had Gods law, and was a part of Gods chosen people. Now we know by the bible that the gentils, not excluding jews, has be called to do Gods work. Jesus has shone us how we should treat one another. I am an Adventist who has fallen many times, but I know that only by Christ I can change and he will judge me according to my knowledge of him. I know there will be people in heaven that have eaten pork, but loved God with all there heart. They did not receive that light in there time. For those who do still eat pork even when the bible clearly states it as an abomination should still be treated with love for this is there struggle and who is to say that person will not be in heaven. By the way, I have gone to public school, a non-Adventist college, employed by people that are non-Adventist, not married, and if Jesus hasn’t come yet, I plan to be cared for at home when I get old.

  84. This writer’s depiction of the SDA church is wrong. For you to call us an insular cult is an insult. In the writer’s own words, he stated in bold type and underlined, “this does not apply to all SDA churches.” Yet, he still wrote this entire article as though IT DOES apply to all churches.
    I was born and raised an SDA. Sure, there are people who have went to SDA schools from pre-school through universities but that is a vast minority. The VAST MAJORITY have never attended an Adventist school and this is a fact. But let’s say hypothetically this is the case and they grow up to be preachers, teachers, doctors and nurses. Is there something wrong with this? Who wouldn’t be proud to have a child doing one of these professions? In fact, didn’t Jesus PREACH, TEACH AND HEAL? Fact is, the VAST majority of us are not in these professions. I am a Sr. Mortgage Underwriter. My soon to be wife is a hairdresser. My aunt is a nurse. My mother is a Sr. Technician at Qwest. My brother is a surgical tech. My sister is an X-Ray Tech. My best friend is a computer tech. Must I keep going to show this writer does not know what he’s talking about?
    You use the example of somebody being shunned by SDA members because they ate a Meat Lovers pizza. Again, you’re not talking about the merits of the church, you’re talking about the people in the church and the vast majority of Adventists are not like that. If you don’t know better, we may direct you to scriptures in the Bible that warn against eating unclean foods. It’s no different when I spent a night at a friend’s house and his Christian cousin tried to come onto me. I had to open up the Bible and let him know how God felt about homosexuality. He had a choice to make. He could continue going down that path or change. Unfortunately, he remained the same. I can’t say I shunned him but we definitely didn’t hang out anymore because he tried to come onto me again. Unlike what this writer depicted, the majority of my friends are not Adventists. Just about all of them eat unclean meats. I do not. When we go out together, I don’t judge them and tell them they’re going to hell and even my Adventist friends, I don’t judge them either and vice versa. We know what’s right and wrong.
    It’s your choice to do what you want with the knowledge when you receive it. God is your judge and you’ll answer to him accordingly. Other denominations may feel that we are extreme and that’s fine. But what matters to us is, “Thus saith the Lord.” If you don’t believe that God is serious in Isaiah 66:15-17 that he will destroy those who eat swine and other abominations, that’s between you and God. Not taking God’s word seriously …you’re doing so at your own peril. God told Adam, “The day you eat the fruit or even touch it, you will die.” Satan convinced Eve otherwise: “You will NOT surely die.” Although it may seem trivial to us, apparently, God took HIS OWN WORD seriously. What happened to Adam and Eve? There plenty of examples where God meant what he said. He told Cain and Abel to bring a lamb and sacrifice it to him. Abel followed God’s instructions, brought the lamb, sacrificed and God honored it with fire from heaven. Cain brought the fruits of his labor …HIS OWN WORKS and what happened? Nothing. Then he got pissed off and slew his brother. Again, we can lead you to the water. You don’t have to drink it. It’s your choice. As for us, we believe that God will destroy those who partake in abominable acts (See Rev 21:9-12) …because God said so. We don’t need nothing else but his Word.
    Sabbath keeping …lol. Belize is hot. When I lived there, I’d go to the river sometimes. Sometimes, I’d swim to the other side of the bank. I don’t agree that’s a sin. Now if I’m swimming to get some exercise …and doing laps around the pool, that’s different.
    While the rest of the world may believe that God is not serious about the Sabbath Day, we definitely do. We don’t take it any more or less serious than murder, lying or any of his other commandments, which he wrote with his own finger on two tables of stone. The rest of the world agrees that murderers and liars will not enter in the kingdom of heaven. Plus Paul said so in the New Testament. Why does the rest of the World have a problem with the Sabbath Day? Is Jesus not serious about the Sabbath, which HE instituted at creation? Isaiah 66: 22-23 says that when the new heavens and new earth are settled, ALL flesh will come to worship him every Sabbath Day. So, fact is, the Sabbath commandment is still going to be in effect in heaven, just like it is on Earth right now.

    • Well Gregory, I’ve been off of this for some time but interesting to see that the discussions continue, some truth mixed with error as usual. I see you are a born and raised SDA, so like most you were indoctrinated, or conditioned, whether you know it or not, to not question authority, not to criticize, and stick with the church no matter what. Has it occurred to you that where there is smoke, there is fire? Why are SO many people saying the things they do about the SDA, Inc. church? I see your a bit more liberal minded, that is nice, a good start. But I come from a non-SDA background, although my G G Grandma joined the church back in the old days, like most of us she was a seeker after spiritual truth. But I have to sympathize with most of the people have “borne testimony” on here, what they are saying is true. I spent many years in ministry, among’st high ups, leading theologians, and in may of our main churches, and a lot of smaller ones too, all across the continent. I have to agree with most of the people on here, and that the church is a cult like organization that uses emotion, hype, and social ostracizing to keep us in line. Sure, there are some who are not into this, but I’m still looking for them far and near. Strange, is it not? Maybe your indulging in some wishful thinking and also about meats, veggies, etc. most SDAs are aggressive meat eating carnivores, fact. Most anywhere if you are found out to be a vegetarian, or worst yet, oh my, a VEGAN, look out. Sure at HQ they talk veg, but don’t don’t do it, most SDA go veg on Sabbath, and back to meat the rest of the week, that helps keep Loma Linda and Cedar Lake in business. I produced the HOPE Channel program YOUR LIFE & HEALTH and was at Loma Linda when top GC leaders condemned vegans for being “divisive” and said it was not important. This was right after the World Veg Congress held there at the university where vegans experts and doctors blasted and took down the non-vegan veg experts from SDAism right in public in debate. It was embarrassing and the leaders were doing damage control to keep the flock in line. I’ve known a lot of people who worked at conference levels who told me how the veg talk you hear from leaders is mostly a lot of bunk. They love meat, it makes them feel powerful, strong, leader quality! While looking for locations to film the shoe [YL&H] in Orlando I found this really cool Italian banquet room at this fancy restaurant. While talking to the owner he told me that the room was all made up and the large table set for a Florida Hospital dinner event and meeting, with lots of meat! He thought this was so interesting and not expected. I was not surprised at all. I am not a judgmental type, but a realist, and most of my friends eat meat, and the Unitarian church I go to, we discuss the subject in a nice, intelligent manner. Actually, its the only church I’ve seen that does not try to by pass the rational mind in their discussions on seeking spiritual truth and meaning. SDA’s original roots are in both Unitarianism and Universalism by the way, for now I’m going back to my family roots in New England where we were Unitarians. Its a good place to start over again with no persecution or limits being placed on my back. They live up to their reputation as a free, liberal religion, and they are congregational, not central authority types….and yes, I’m a film producer, former theologian who worked with the most liberal, free thinking pastor in the denomination, great man and good influence.

  85. A significant percentage of the Brooklyn neighborhood children went to either Catholic grade/middle and high schools or to similar Jewish schools. This was often followed by Catholic College. And the almost irresistible pressure to marry within a given faith. How is that significantly different from the SDA scoop track. It is a joke to pretend that many christian


  87. Oppressive, destructive, extremely controlling, yes, your statement is very correct but have no truth, I must tell you.
    Let me take you up a bit. Do you remember the campaign of Lucifer when he used these words to win some of the angels against God Almighty. For me to say you are “luciferous”, devil incarnate, satanic, and deceiver, will not be enough to qualify you.
    I am so sorry for the many people you have used your web-site to lure into the fold of satan. is only God that will have mercy on you.

  88. Beloved children of God, be careful not to confuse yourselves in the SDA matters. The most important thing is to keep all commandments of God, not only focusing on one or two. Keep all of them the same. We shall all one day understand these things when Christ returns.

    Remember that Satan uses manipulational tricks to confuse you so that you focus on debates rather than on the word of God alone. Believe the bible and do why God expects u to do. People may come up with writings that can help others understand better, no problems on that. The problems come wen we focuses on persons rather than God himself. Remember even the bible was written by humans too, even though they were directly inspired by the Holy ghost. The power God gave to our forefathers is the same power he can give to anyone willing to serve him. Watch out for the devil may confuse u so badly that you will loose way n stumble into the dark side of life. Love God, n keep his commandments. That’s all u shld do from now.

  89. I actually found this article quite interesting and I was able to relate to it on many levels. I was born into the SDA religion, I went to an SDA school, I went to church every single Saturday of my childhood life, I went to Pathfinders and I went to their youth group. My parents’ families were not of the SDA faith, therefore, I grew up not knowing them. I stopped going to church when I was 16, simply because I didn’t want to get up early every Saturday morning (I was a typical teenager who wanted to sleep in on weekends). A couple of years later, I lost both of my parents. Not one member of the church bothered to check on me, because according to them, I had become ‘worldly’, but what they didn’t know was, I knew nothing about the real world. I was then left to discover the world on my own, without the church’s support, without an extended family and without any knowledge of who I was meant to be. To this day, I have struggled with right and wrong. What is right to every other person I know, is wrong according to my childhood conscience. I have never felt like I’ve ever fitted in anywhere. I’m not a Seventh-Day Adventist anymore but I’m not of the real world either.

  90. So we’re controlled because we study the bible. Hmmmmm. Your groups changed the Bible so that you could confer? This life is but a page in eternity. You’ve put yourself above God.

  91. Well I was Brought up SDA way back in the 1950s, It was Strict and VERY Violent, When I quit school at 15, I also quit home and the CULT:
    Best thing I ever did, Today some 50 years later I have discovered the real evil of SDA and there false leader Ellen White via the web & You-Tube;
    The very fact the SDA Cult has re-written the Bible to “Prove” there fake
    teachings are enough for me; Im Now A Christian; and thank the Lord for that.

  92. Very sad to hear your pain. You have expressed a lot of pain and rejection. Perhaps you are rebelling. God does have guidelines and rules, so do your parents and police officers,etc. Could you imagine a world with all sin and no rules? Could you imagine all evil in heaven? I am so grateful for GOD and the Ten Commandments because I look forward to heaven and that I can get out of this ugly,evil,nasty world. The choice is yours!
    Perhaps you need to stop just listening to others and READ the BIBLE yourself and you will see what it says. The SDA church is Following GODS word. The reason people hang out together is because it is common interest this is human nature not religion or cult. Drug addicts hang out together,athletes,etc. same reason why a educated person doesn’t out with uneducated people, nothing in common. This is called human nature not cult! Cults threaten to kill you when you leave this is absolutely crazy to say about the SDA church! You need to do alot of bible studies because you need to find out for yourself the truth! I did this and i am back after many years and none of what you said above is true at all.
    pray for your eyes to be opened to the truth!

  93. I want to add don’t follow a person or religion follow GOD and what God tells you in the BIBLE.

    God tell us to follow… The Ten Commandments

    Rev.14:12,John 14:15,Exodus 20:12

    The Bible tells us “Beware”

    Matthew 7:15,2 John 4:1,2 Timothy 4:3,2 Peter 2:1,2 Corinthians 11:13-15,Ezekiel 22:27, Matthew 24:4-5,Roman 16;17-18

    I hope this helps ….

    Also listen to you parents lots of scripture support this too.

  94. After reading all the many many nasty very judgmental comments,proves that you are not reading your Bible.

    Always use the BIBLE as your study guide. People,ministers, materials are for help to understand the scripture. Yes, they very according to who you talk too and according to how they were taught.

    If you use the HOLY BIBLE and pray for GOD to help you understand it,he will tell you what is right and wrong.

    We are not to cast stones because we disagree with each others beliefs, this is not christian behavior for any religion.

    Please read and follow the BIBLE look to churches and others as assistance and fellowship, You can’t go wrong when following the BIBLE!

    Dig deep in your hearts on what your motivations is when doing or saying something?

    Good or Evil ?

  95. They secretly tell you to buy land and live their instead in the city.Also they lower me because I don’t have a career. They also say I am unproductive. But above understand they don’t know other ways to believe in Jesus. I go to SDA Church every Sabbath but I don’t follow any rules they state I am open minded. Jesus wants us to love. God doesn’t want sacrifice but mercy. Paul didn’t go around the world and preash the health message or clean or unclean. He preached Jesus Christ came to save you through righteousness and faith.
    Don’t return to Judaism Paul said.
    Love one another Jesus said. Pastor says love one another is the church. I say Jesus meant everyone. They all think the same wow this is a sect and a cult. I just use them as friends. I have ton of worldy and godly friends. I love you all. But strongly disagree in everything every humanbeing says. I am unique and hope Jesus Christ covers me with his blood not because I AM worth it but because I was chosen to follow. Many are called but few are chosen. Also finally the parable of the 10 virgins state 5/10 are saved. Jesus states 1 goes in 1 goes out. One on his left .one In his right. Its all about luck who goes in and no one knows the day and hr mr. Miller peace and blessings be upon him (Muslim refrence) If you have heared other ideas and not leave your study closed and focused on 1844. The real God of Abraham (my ancestry)would of send someone mediocre to refrence no one knows when Jesus is coming. O wait, all the bad town drunks did. O, too bad pride is what keeps this religion up. Beware of pride jesus said and he also said build your faith in rocky good ground not pride in your deeds. Scholars get you prideful. Jesus saves not the old laws of moses. My fellow ancestors followed those laws in the dessert and now they are dead because they did not have Christ.accept the bread of heaven that is not a law. For a law is for a slave not for free. You decide.

  96. for all the above false arguments you have put up, you did not give any Bible quotation support. the sda is Presently the only Bible believing Christians on earth. all are following the Papal sun worship so do better Bible research on this topic.

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